Questions about forgiveness:

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by mima, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. mima

    mima
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    Is the forgiveness of God an event still in the future, an event still to come? Or has the act of forgiveness already taken place back at the cross. If God has already forgiven the sins of the world, why do we as Christians ask forgiveness from Him at this time?

     
  2. Scarlett O.

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    Here is a concrete answer to your question. It's written as good as anything I've read on the subject of why do we have ask for forgiveness if we are already forgiven.

    I was going to say from my own point of view that if forgiveness is not ours right now, then we are not saved right now.

    Read the link. It's very good.

    http://www.gty.org/resources.php?section=articles&aid=17
     
  3. mima

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    i did read the link and by doing so I believe I gained some helpful insight about forgiveness. Thank you very much.
     
  4. Brother Bob

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    Repentance is required at the hands of all men and it takes repentance before forgiveness.
    "except you repent you shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come." peace
     
  5. PrimePower7

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    2 questions for you

    I appreciate your question mima. It really got me thinking.

    I assume we are using the normal definition of forgiveness which would mean for someone to not hold something wrong you have done against you.

    Ephesians 1
    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Is it not apparent in this Scripture that forgiveness occurs when redemption occurs (occured)?

    When did redemption occur? In other words: When were we bought?
     
  6. Brother Bob

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    When we believed from the heart and was baptized by the Holy Ghost.
     
  7. LeBuick

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    Again, I agree with Bro Bob. In the baptism we die to sin and rise in the newness of life. From that point we are dead to sin. 6 chpt of Romans gives an in depth study of this.

    Prov 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

    Now the NT says;
    IJon1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
     
  8. PrimePower7

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    In your response to Ephesians 1 you stated that we are redeemed when we believed and were baptized by the Holy Ghost. But is that what the Scripture teaches?

    Galatians3
    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    Does this not teach that he redeemed (forgave) us when He became a curse for us? When did this happen? When did He become a curse for us? When we believed? Is THAT what you are saying?
     
  9. Brother Bob

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    I am saying what Jesus said:
    Except you believe that I am He, ye shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come.
    I am saying even though Jesus died for all but unless you believe you will die in your sins.
    I am saying:

    Romans, chapter 1
    "16": For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    I am saying that is only a few Scriptures and Eph 1 says that Israel is the "elect", and we are?13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    yep, that is what I am saying. peace
     
  10. StraightAndNarrow

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    This is an interesting article but he doesn't provide any scriptural basis for his explanation. Judicial forgiveness and parental forgiveness? I've never seen anything to support that idea in the Bible.
     
  11. Scarlett O.

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    Well, you are right in asserting that those terms are not in found in the bible. But the underlying distinction is. I had never really thought about it until today when I was looking for a commentary on the original question.

    I really hate to simply defer you to another link, but here is one that provides a side-by-side analysis of the two, with scriptural support of the distinction, not the terms.

    It's definitely food for thought.

    http://www.godislight.org/misc/judicial_parental_macdonald.htm

    Skip down to the chart for the scripture citations.
     
  12. LeBuick

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    Read the 6th chpt of Romans

    [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    [3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    [6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
     
  13. PrimePower7

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    Both Scriptures are right

    I am not arguing with detergent guy or Bob.

    I am asking you to consider "forgiveness" as it is used in the BOOK. It says we were forgiven when Christ became a curse, does it not?
     
  14. Brother Bob

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    No, that is when the suffering for our sins took place but we must believe to receive it. Who said anything about arguing. peace

    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    There is some believing to be done, and being baptized by the Holy Ghost which is to receive His blood then.
     
  15. PrimePower7

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    Bob

    Bob, answer the question!

    You look old enough to answer questions.
     
  16. Helen

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    Redemption and forgiveness are two entirely different things. If not, then we would have to be redeemed over and over again, for we read in 1 John 9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

    And a couple of verses down, in 2:1-2, we read "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense -- Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

    In other words, all the sins of the world have been atoned for. Forgiveness, however, is different. God has it ready, but it is incumbant upon us to acknowledge our sin(s) and repent. As Christians, we still sin, but we no longer live in a state of sin and we are no longer slaves to it. Nevertheless, we still sin. And as we are shown our sins, as the Holy Spirit works in our lives, we must go to God and confess and He is faithful to forgive -- over and over and over again -- as we are being raised up to become images of Jesus Christ Himself.

    However we know we don't need to be redeemed over and over and over again. That was a one-time accomplishment by Christ.
     
  17. Brother Bob

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    Helen;
    You put it in different words but you seem to be saying the same thing that He tasted death for all but we must believe in order to have the blood applied to our soul. Unless I am misreading you and if so, sorry.
    Peace


    Primepower7;
    No need for remarks, please keep this civil!

    I did answer the question, it just that you did not understand the answer. Don't feel like answering it over and over. peace
     
    #17 Brother Bob, Jul 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2006
  18. PrimePower7

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    Hi Helen

     
  19. PrimePower7

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    Bob

    Primepower7;
    No need for remarks, please keep this civil!

    I did answer the question, it just that you did not understand the answer. Don't feel like answering it over and over. peace[/quote]

    I know, Bob, that you, with 2000+ posts, are not telling me to keep my remarks down. Civility is not necessarily just agreeing with Bob. You did NOT answer my question. My question 2 posts ago from me to you was did Christ redeem/forgive us when He was made a curse?

    I don't, in my opinion, think that you want to take the time to think about what I am asking you, so you just assume that I am not worth your time.


    Please prove that I am wrong about this and answer my question. I can live without your approval, but I would like to think highly of you, so take away my reason to think that you are uncomfortable enough with this idea to ignore it.

    Thanks
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    peace, pleaseeeeeee!
     
    #20 Brother Bob, Jul 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2006

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