Questions in the face of disaster

So you think Calvinism is deceitful? You think we're just spinning lies?

You object to what you think is Calvinism,but surely you are not saying that we purposefully are out to con people,are you?!

Calvinistic doctrine incorporates the whole counsel of the Word of God. You need to narrow-down what you have problems with. I have told you in the past that you actually need to read works by Calvinists before you spout off as you do. You might have a lot more agreement than you currently understand.

If you think Calvinism is the worst thing that Baptist churches have to confront these days you are woefully uninformed. I think that there are a lot of damaging perspectives being taught by some in churches today which are against the Scriptures. Calvinism,in proclaiming the Word of God -- is exalting the Savior. I don't know why you persist in your ways Robert.

 

I would like you to explain why the verses I furnished in post #20 do not mean what they say.

No manipulation was going on. You are a cause of concern Robert.

 

Reply to Jarthur001

I think these and many others are clear. Saying I do not understand is simply disparaging me rather than addressing my view.

I did read the context of all three verses and those contexts seemed to me to support my view.

Next, why would I google a word rather than flip open an exhaustive concordance?

Does the parable say something happened by chance, i.e not by deterministic control? Yes. Do you have a scripture which supports your view. Please provide the reference.

Bottom line, scripture in verse after verse indicates things happen other than by prearrangement. The assertion that everything is deterministically controlled simply is not supported in the Bible.

Ecc 9:11 says time and chance overtake them all, and does not say only in a fictional world without God. Rewriting scripture to support doctrine is what divides the body of Christ.
BTW, the bottom line for this book is "love God and enjoy life."

 

Of course not. I know you believe what you preach. I think it is wrong none the less. All churches and even the cults believe they are correct, but they are wrong.

 

Well then, you'll have to renounce what you said earlier about Calvinism being a sham. Since you recognize that we are sincere in what we preach --that we believe it is biblical --then in no way,manner or form is it a sham. (Maybe you didn't know the meaning of the word "sham" when you first posted.)

 

Reply to Rippon

A sham is something false or empty that is purported to be genuine.

Four of the five doctrines of grace I believe to be shams.

See post 31 which addressed your take in post 20.

 

Someone asked for a passage of Scripture that says that everything happens because of God rather than chance. Well I can think of no better ones that these:

(Rom 11:34) For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

(Rom 11:35) Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

(Rom 11:36) For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

(1Co 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 

Let me explain.

I was thinking more along the lines of someone who believes an error, thinking it is legitimate.

I believe Calvinism is a sham, the doctrine, but not necessarily the ones who believe it. They are sincere, just sincerely wrong.

 

I believe one of your greatest problems is that you seem to worship church history more than anything else. You constantly allude to things that are old as though this makes them legitimate. You need to look at what the bible says, not what people like Calvin say.

You Calvinists seem to be the ones who strain at a gnat yet don't see the big picture. You cannot see the forest for the trees. You assign attributes to God in a way that make Him a monster, not a loving God. While you dissect one verse of scripture to make it fit into Calvinism, you fail to see the overall nature of God. Stand back from this doctrinally challenged system and look at the totality of God's working with man. God didn't make us robots, he gave us free will and desires that we love Him; He doesn't force us. This idea goes against the message of the Gospel.

 

You don't think that the Lord determines the day and hour of the death of every single person? Don't you believe that He ordains that very thing?

It is certainly not indiscriminate. That same goes for the lives He chooses to spare.

 

Luke, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You worship at the feet of Calvin and don't even realize it.

 

The fact that God has given man free will to either accept the Gospel or reject it is so plain in the totality of scripture, it is unbelievable that some don't see it.

 

This describes Calvinism completely.

Free will is the ability to choose or to reject God and the Gospel.

 

I believe the bible, not Calvinism. Jesus told sinners to come to Him. He wouldn't tell people to come if they could not come. I don't think Jesus lies. To tell people to come who couldn't come would be deceptive. Maybe this works for the Calvinists, but it doesn't work for me.

 

"I may add also with no little indignation, that there have been some men who have never been able to grasp the Gospel in its integrity in order to present the Grace of God to men’s minds at once in its sovereignty and in its freeness. Though their sermons sometimes ring with the clear melodious note of Grace of God, they are too often bent on qualifying the extent of its welcome and inventing explanations of their own, to wrest the simple meaning of Scriptures.
Calvinists, such men may call themselves, but, unlike the Reformer whose name they adopt, they bring a system of divinity to the Bible to interpret it, instead of making every system, by its merits what they may, yield and give place to the pure and unadulterated Word of God." —Charles Spurgeon, "Effects of Sound Doctrine"