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Questions Preterist MUST deal with to Fit the 70 A.D. Theory

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by revmwc, Oct 3, 2011.

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  1. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    I am glad you see you lost since Paul did not use hols on in talkiing about the gospel of the kingdom being preached. You missed yet agian, Paul said the faith of the Romans was "that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole (holos)world" again throughout the whole world and it continues to be spoken of throughout the whole world. You still miss the point that the N.T. was not completed when Romans was written and if God still had scripture to give us the Prophecy of Christ in Mt. 24:14 was the Gospel of the Kingdom would be preached in all (holos) the earth. Again you fall short in your attempt to grasp at the wanting of your doctrinal beliefs.
    The Colosians verse you use the word every again is pas creatures as we see it means each and every creature, collectively some of all types. When was that gospel preached to those craetures? Maybe at the criteation? Again it is not saying the complete world or completely to all man or the world.
     
    #21 revmwc, Oct 12, 2011
  2. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    If Matt 24:14 was fufilled in the first century as you preterist think (Rom 16:26) then there was no need for Paul to be in the Gospel ministry in the mid 60s and thus would have been able to keep his head.



    Every now and then we find something to agree on.
     
    #22 thomas15, Oct 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2011
  3. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    #23 Grasshopper, Oct 13, 2011
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    #24 Grasshopper, Oct 13, 2011
  5. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    #25 revmwc, Oct 13, 2011
  6. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Yes or no, when holos is used it means entire world not just Roman Empire?

    .*

    Yes, holos is describing world. So what does world mean? Why did Jesus not use kosmos?


    Known world, that why oikoumene *was used and not kosmos.

    You have yet to show any source as to why holos means worldwide when used with oikoumene. Holos definition works just as well with region as it does worldwide. The whole or complete Roman Empire had the Gospel.

    Yes! World being oikoumene not kosmos. Whole Roman Empire or whole known world.

    Paul using the same Greek word say it was! I don't understand how you keep missing this.

    .

    Where does Paul say even today.*

    Only if you force oikoumene to mean kosmos. You did not answer, did those groups hear about the faith of the Romans?

    .

    What does the giving of more scripture have to do with the Gospel? Did neither Jesus or Paul teach the Gospel? That is what Matthew 24:14 is about.

    You have just destroyed the doctrine of imminency that most Dispies say the time statements of the Bible refer to. Since you believe the entire world is in focus then the teaching that Christ could have returned at anytime in the lives of the 1st century Apostles is falsified. Christ coming was not imminent then or now if that is the standard. Many parts of the world are still untouched by the Gospel today.*


    Show many anywhere else in Matthew or the other Gospels where "this generation" means anything other than Jesus' generation. Thomas Ice even acknowledges this fact.

    Even Hal Lindsey recognizes a generation to be around 40 years. Common belief among most all Dispies I have ever read.
     
    #26 Grasshopper, Oct 13, 2011
  7. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Who said I was a common dispie?
     
    #27 revmwc, Oct 13, 2011
  8. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    oikoumene Vines:"to dwell, inhabit, denotes the inhabited earth. Translated world everywhere but Luke 21:26" Vines: the inhabited earth. is used (a) of the whole inhabited world in Matt.24:14; Luke 4:5;21:26:Rom 10:18; Heb. 1:6; Rev. 3:10;16:14" So vines applies it to the inhabited world and thus all the human beings in all regions of the earth.
     
    #28 revmwc, Oct 13, 2011
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    :thumbs:

    Mt 24:14 was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. To 'the eleven' Christ said :

    But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8

    Take note Christ said, 'ye shall' receive power, 'ye shall' be my witnesses unto the end of the earth. Period. He didn't say I want you to try to do it, He told them that they indeed would do it.

    In the very next chapter Luke records:

    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit [RECEIVED POWER].......
    5 Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven [UTTERMOST PART OF THE EARTH].
    6 .........every man heard them speaking in his own language [WITNESSES OF CHRIST]. Acts 2

    Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia, in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God. Acts 2:9-11

    What do you think that those 'Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven' in Acts 2 did when they all went back home from the feast of Pentecost, after hearing and believing the gospel and themselves having received power from the Holy Spirit?

    The preaching at Pentecost was a 'gospel bomb' that fulfilled Christ's words of Mt 24:14.
     
    #29 kyredneck, Oct 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2011
  10. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    So you believe the tribes in the Americas and the pacific Islands heard the message Peter Preached on Pentacost. Since none of them were there can you tell us how they heard the Pentacostal message? The whold entire inhabited world has to hear the Gospel and that still has yet to happen. Christ said when ALL the inhabited world heard the Gospel and ALL the other things were fulfilled then He would return. So can you answer the other question posed as to when these were fulfilled? Christ said ALL must be fulfilled.

    Acts 1:9 "Ye" whosoever believes will receive power to be witnesses, that means you and I have the power to be witnesses where we live and whereever we go. When the Holy Spirit indwells and fills us at salvation we received the power to be witnesses, that is still happening today.
     
    #30 revmwc, Oct 14, 2011
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I'm content to believe the scriptures (as you should be also) as stated here:

    So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10:17-18

    and here:

    5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
    6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
    23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1

    and here:

    Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal, but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith: Ro 16:25-26

    If the Spirit is content to state that the gospel HAS been preached throughout creation, who are you to contest that?
     
    #31 kyredneck, Oct 14, 2011
  12. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Paul meaning in this was the known world at that time, verse 18 earth "Ge" strongs 5. a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region Their sound went into all (pas) the territory. Then their words to the (peras) boundries of the empire.
    "Oikoumene" strongs 1b world from the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire

    This would exclude the whole inhabited earth. Paul used the word "Oikoumene" here in Romans almost exclusively of the Roman empire. Their words went to the dispersed Jews and the peoples of Rome. Jesus said in Mat. 24:14 ALL the inhbitants of the Whole Inhabited World would need to hear the Gospel. That would include every tribe of mankind in every part of the World and not limited by boundries. Does Peras have several meanings yes it does, however as you see Paul writing to the Romans he was dealing with those in Rome and those in the Empire of Rome.
     
    #32 revmwc, Oct 14, 2011
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Irregardless, the requirement of Mt 24:14 was satisfied by the time the NT was completed.

    The solution to your reasonings and presuppositions lies in the the simple fact that the gospel was to 'the Jew first' [Acts 3:26; Ro 1:16]. I'm pretty sure that “the tribes in the Americas and the pacific Islands” had not yet heard the gospel at this time. I'm also pretty sure that there were no Jews amongst “the tribes in the Americas and the pacific Islands” at this time. Concerning the Jews, Paul wrote:

    But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10:18

    There was a very serious time line involved for every Jew of 'that generation' alive on the planet. The urgency of the message to 'the Jew first' was 'Save yourselves from this crooked generation' (Acts 2), and 'Every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people' (Acts 3).

    Consider what was coming upon 'that generation':

    upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23:35,36

    God made sure that every Jew on earth was given the chance to 'hearken to that prophet' before the wrath came. All the Jews of that generation on earth heard the gospel, and were given the chance to repent and escape the wrath that was to come upon 'that generation', and for their progeny to avoid the curses of the OT [Lev 26; Dt 28 & 31,32] that were to come upon the race. God gave her time to repent (a full forty year generation), but she would not.
     
    #33 kyredneck, Oct 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2011
  14. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    So by the 90's A.D. the Matt 24:14 by what you say "was satisfied by the time the NT was completed." but you say Christ returned in 70 A.D. seems that would mean that well it hadn't been fulfilled until after His return if He had in fact returned in 70 A.D. You say Revelation was completed by 70 A.D. yet extra Biblical History says it was written in 95 to 96 A.D. then too the Book of Jude is shown as dating to around a 90 something A.D. writting so that two books we still see yet to complete after 70 A.D. again you seem like the rest wanting to prove your Theory.

    Theory: 1.rules and techniques: the body of rules, ideas, principles, and techniques that applies to a subject, especially when seen as distinct from actual practice
    This fits preterism
    2.speculation: abstract thought or contemplation
    Again fits real well
    3.idea formed by speculation: an idea of or belief about something arrived at through speculation or conjecture
    This really fits well, since no Preterist has ever proven Christ returned in 70 A.D. nor can they offer proof, just Specualtion and Conjecture with no meat from God's word to back it up and no historical evidence that we should have from God because He does nothing in secret.
     
    #34 revmwc, Oct 14, 2011
  15. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    I see too you want to limit what Christ said now to only where the Jews were living, but from the Greek we see what He said, and that was that the whole complete inhabited world would hear the Gospel preached, He didn't say where the Jews where the Jews dwell in their midst, He said the complete whole inhabited World, that would include the Americas and Pacific Islands, where ever mankind inhabited a piece of ground the gospel would be preached to that people.
     
    #35 revmwc, Oct 14, 2011
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I'm done.....
     
    #36 kyredneck, Oct 14, 2011
  17. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    Yep, waste of time. Never answered my questions.
     
    #37 Grasshopper, Oct 14, 2011
  18. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    you sure never answered all of mine that is for sure, so your theory continues to come up wanting.
     
    #38 revmwc, Oct 14, 2011
  19. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Might as well quit since you didn't answer the balance of the questions and never could answer the 1st one with any answers that made sense.
     
    #39 revmwc, Oct 14, 2011
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1740544#post1740544

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1740556#post1740556
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1740581#post1740581

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63301

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1671933&highlight=SELF-INFLICTED+SUFFERINGS#post1671933


     
    #40 kyredneck, Oct 15, 2011
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