Rabbi says Jews already saved

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by DQuixote, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. DQuixote

    DQuixote
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    In response to a question about John 14:6, the Rabbi said that Jews are God's chosen; they are already saved. Jesus came to save non-Jews, not Jews. His evidence is that if Jesus had come for the Jews he would have established his earthly kingdom.

    Think about it: The Jews are God's chosen people, his "elect" if you will (that should make some debaters take notice.) Since they are already chosen, they have no need of being "saved". They are now simply awaiting the Messiah to establish his rule on earth, a glorious kingdom. You can't argue with him from the NT (he says) because it was written to everyone but Jews.

    Knowing that you can't convince him or reason with him from the NT, how would you talk to him, one-on-one? Would you even bother to talk to him?

    :saint:
     
  2. bound

    bound
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    Grace and Peace,

    This is where the Apostle Paul is of 'most' importance. The New Testament is not only for non-jews but for all who are welcomed into the New and Everlasting Covenant.

    If you read through Paul's Epistle to the Romans you'll find that he establishes the condemnation of both Jews and Gentiles and the necessity of both to enter into the Covenant of Jesus Christ.

    Also remember what John the Baptist said to the Pharisees and Sadducees of his day...

    But when he saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You offspring of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Therefore produce fruit that proves your repentance, and don’t think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that God can raise up children for Abraham from these stones! Even now the ax is laid at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

    Both the Apostle Paul and Matthew dismiss this 'assumed' salvation of the Jews. I think it is best to reaffirm to your Jewish Friend the necessity of reading the New Testament with this in mind.

    Peace and God Bless.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    In that case "a lot of saved Jews got slaughtered by the Romans and the Syrians and the Babylonians"

    Christ said "no one comes to the Father but by Me" -- speaking pre-cross to a Jewish audience. Christ almost never addressed a gentile audience.

    Christ said to the Jews "unless YOUR righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees YOU shall not enter the kingdom"

    It is not a given that all Jews are saved according to Paul in Romans 2. He argues that the BASIS for salvation is the SAME for BOTH Jews AND Gentiles in Romans 2. And Paul was a JEW - of high education so he MUST have known what Jews thought to be true.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. DQuixote

    DQuixote
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    That's a good, correct Christian answer, bound, but the OP requires:

     
  5. Donbam

    Donbam
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    There is an excellent four volume series of books by Michael Brown titled:

    Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus:

    Volume 1 : General and Historical Objections

    Volume 2 : Theological Objections

    Volume 3 : Messianic Prophecy Objections

    Volume 4 : New Testament Objections

    They should be an addition to anyone's library.

    Shalom in our Messiah Yeshua,

    Shamash Don
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Good points. Once an unbelieving Jew admits to the existence and teaching of Christ (as something that exists) then they can be reasoned with based on the "existence" of the NT text and Nt writers without arguing that the NT sources are inspired.

    For example few Jews would argue that Christ or Paul "were not Jews". And most of them will admit that the NT text is the best known document that reports the teaching of Christ and Paul - regardless of whether you choose to agree with that teaching.

    That forms common ground.

    Even better to use the OT writers. You know "the bad bible":laugh:

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. bound

    bound
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    DUH! :laugh:
     
  8. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I don't know if arguing makes much sense but what about Nicodemus? He was a jew and Jesus was also very clear to him, even he had to be born again. :)
     
  9. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
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    Rabbi sounds like these Jewish people:

    33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
    38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    Also, we must remember John Hagee said as this Rabbi said.
     

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