re: 3x church thread

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jonathan, May 7, 2007.

  1. Jonathan

    Jonathan
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    I saw the original thread and how it seemed to run off the rails (not a bad nor uncommon thing on a good discussion board like this one). I wanted to encourage you but the thread was locked so I'll give it an addendum.

    The low hanging fruit: not meeting a pastor's expectations that one attend all 3 scheduled services does not always mean that one is being a casual christian nor a fence straddler, nor luke warm. I'm sure that you know that. I'm a pastor's son, married to a pastor's daughter, have several pastors in my extended family, am a fan of good preaching, have heard more than my share of poor preaching, and am a fan of the local church. I mention this to give credence to my experience that sometimes even reasonable preachers step over the line in their passion to exhort the flock.

    Your childhood experience was normative for most of the population of North America until around 1900. In fact, the root of the Sunday evening service was from the era of the circuit riders where folks would come from miles around on the Sunday that the circuit riding preacher would appear in their community (in some cases this would be 1-2 Sundays a month). They would have a long AM service, then lunch on the grounds involving a time of fellowship, followed by a brief early evening vespers type service just before all would head for home.

    The history of the mid-week service doesn't go back that far.

    That said, my concern has more to do with your isolation (at least that is how I am reading your post) from your brothers and sisters in Christ than what your pastor is saying. When you are in need, who in your church will know/who in your church can you count on? On the other side, without close relationships with fellow members, how do you know when others have needs?

    Don't take my comments as criticism. The nature of my job has me spending 50-60 hours per week at the office (when I'm not traveling for business; the travel work day adds another 10 - 20 hrs to the work week at a minimum). I tend to spend around 20 hours per week in preparing Sunday school lessons, another 2-3 hours in disciplining/mentoring...all while striving to attending to my most important earthly tasks (after seeking after God myself) of husbanding my wife and fathering my children.

    I have some knowledge of the isolation you refer to.

    I recall that both my mother and my mother-in-law rarely had close friends in the churches that our father's served (for several reasons, mostly having to do with the difficult politics that smaller churches tend toward).

    Both our fathers had similar situations and ultimately sought out close friendships with other pastors, former seminary classmates and professors, evangelists, local school principals (who attended other churches), and so on.

    In each case, such isolation from fellow church members did not serve anyone well.

    I strongly encourage you to work to overcome this isolation. More importantly, I will pray that members of your church will lovingly reach out to you and that you will give them a chance.

    And pray for your pastor. There is a reason that he is offbase with his comments.
     
  2. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    Who said he was offbase?

    From what I can read in the Word of God, we are to exhort the assembling together... not tell someone it is ok to miss whenever you decide not to attend.

    If we choose our own selfish desires over the things of God, God is not pleased.

    The phrase so often heard, 'Oh it is ok if you miss Church, God understands' is only half right. What is right about it is, 'God understands'.

    He understands that you choose not to attend fellowship. He understands that you choose to forsake assembling with other believers.

    Yes, God does understand... but that does not mean it is right.
     
  3. dan e.

    dan e.
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    :BangHead:

    This is starting to make me laugh.
     
  4. corndogggy

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    Thanks for the thoughts Jonathan.
     
  5. donnA

    donnA
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    your not supose to put a members name in a thread title.
     
  6. corndogggy

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    What's amusing though, is how many people will read a thread like this knowing good and well it's specifically addressed to somebody other than them. :laugh: I've seen this happen on other forums and the hit count is actually higher than normal threads. Nosy people. :laugh:
     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    Agree. Like somebody said, man is a fallen creature, and most of the time you can prove this by putting a sign over the hole that says "no peeking". Never mind that there's no hole.

    See what happens.
     
  8. donnA

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    It's public board, if you want to talk in private send a pm, otherwise it's open and free for all to read. As it is supose to be.
     
  9. Jonathan

    Jonathan
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    Do you read in the Word of God that those who don't attend 3 services per week are to be described as "casual Christians", "straddling the fence", or "luke warm"?

    I'm in favor of encouraging folks to attend every gathering of the body but to make the above accusation is to move beyond what Scripture states.

    God understands the agendas of all men: those who choose to forsake the assembling together and those who step into the pulpit and make unbiblical declarations. Which is likely to bring a greater judgement?

    I don't know how large Corndoggy's church is but if he has been there for 9 years, I would hope that his pastor and his fellow members would be reaching out to him with something other than blanket condemnations about forsaking the assembly.
     
    #9 Jonathan, May 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2007
  10. rbell

    rbell
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    so...
    What if I went to a church that met every day? Am I wrong for not attending every day?

    ANother hypothetical: I attend a church that meets 4x per week. I move to another area...and join a church that meets 2x per week. Are they less holy? Are they wrong for meeting less per week? If I reverse this situation (going from a 2x church to a 4x church) am I sinning if I only go 2x?

    HBSMN has trodded into the arena of legalism.
     
  11. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    I applaud a pastor who warns his congregation that they are treading dangerous waters when they choose to miss a Church service for a ball game or a birthday party.

    Christ is not coming back for a Church that would rather be assembled with the lost at a party or a ball game. He is coming back for a Church who is attentive to the things of God.
     
  12. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    As I stated before, it is not legalism. The command to assemble, the command to exhort to assemble more now than ever, is all in the Word of God.

    You can choose do deny the Word and stay out of Church for parties and games if you wish, but your wish to ignore clear commands from the Word of God is wrong.
     
  13. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Christ is coming back for those that have accepted him as savior.

    Your previous posts proves that you believe salvation is by works...

    You quote... "Christ is not coming back for a Church that would rather be assembled with the lost at a party or a ball game. He is coming back for a Church who is attentive to the things of God."

    NO He is coming for his....
    You are teaching:

    LEGALISM.
     
  14. JDale

    JDale
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    The only time appointed in Scripture that believers have met traditionally is "the first day of the week," or "the Lord's day," which is Sunday.

    Note that the scriptures do not prescribe meeting Sunday AM & PM, or Wednesday PM -- or even for "Sunday School" for that matter (which was an 18th century English creation).

    There isn't anything "wrong" with these meeting times -- but they are not mandated in Scripture. It is therefore, up to the local body to set agreed upon times of worship, prayer and Bible study.

    JDale
     
  15. rbell

    rbell
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    Bull.

    Christ comes back for His Bride.


    Actually, I skip church to buy crack on the street corner. :saint: :rolleyes:

    Since we're on the topic of "ignoring scripture," feel free to ignore what Jesus said about the measure you use to judge will be used against you.

    That's Matthew 7, in case you've never read it.
     
  16. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    Christ is coming back for those who not only have accepted Him as Savior, but as Lord and Master as well.

    Problem is, too many preachers are standing behind the sacred pulpit and preaching a feel good message. 'Accept Christ as your Savior and you will spend eternity in Heaven. It does not matter what you do after your profession, you are saved.'

    And because of this watered-down preaching, people make excuses not to be in the House of God.

    Yet, God's Holy Word says 'Ye cannot serve God and mammon.'

    The people are not required to do anything? That is contrary to God's Holy Word. We are commanded to do much in the Word of God.
     
    #16 His Blood Spoke My Name, May 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2007
  17. His Blood Spoke My Name

    His Blood Spoke My Name
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    Since God's Word says we are to 'Judge righteous judgment', and I have only written what lines up with God's Word concerning the assembling together, I have not misjudged.
     
  18. Rufus_1611

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    Below are some scriptures that a pastor might use for imploring people to meet more than an hour a week.

    "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart," - Acts 2:46

    "And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." - Acts 5:42

    "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." - Hebrews 10:25


    I agree that scripture does not mandate meeting frequencies, dates and times and I agree that the local body should agree upon such things. However, the leader of the local body has the authority to establish such things. He has the authority to determine what days and times to meet and he has the authority to rebuke those who do not submit to these meeting days. If that leader feels that the people's response to those meeting times is neither cold nor hot, then he is obligated to rebuke, reprove and exhort them in whatever manner he feels led by God to do so. The people that have placed themselves under his authority can choose to accept that rebuke and adjust, rebel against the rebuke and murmur about it or rebel against the rebuke and take themselves out from under the authority of that preacher.


    "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." - Hebrews 13:17
     
  19. dan e.

    dan e.
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    HBSMN, you have yet to prove anything that you are saying. Nobody is denying the fact that believers should not forsake meeting together. What you are arguing for is an allotted time that should be met, and if someone does not meet that requirement then they have spiritual issues.

    You are quoting Scripture that nobody is disagreeing with, yet you are still failing to prove that the Scripture means a specific number of times required to meet. Nobody is denying we should meet. That is what the Bible says...which is what you are quoting, but are making it mean something that it doesn't. The burden of proof is on you...you still haven't proven your point. I'm not asking you to, because you can't. Just understand that your rambling on and on about this hasn't helped...but has only made you appear to be legalistic. I'd call it quits if I were you.
     
  20. tinytim

    tinytim
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    This is why you are teaching a false doctrine of Legalism...
    And why you like to boast about how great you are...

    You have fallen from Grace..
    Galatians 5:4
    (4)
    Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    Ephesians 2:8-9
    (8)
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
    (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    You are preaching another doctrine than Paul... and IF you are relying on your works to get to Heaven, you won't make it....

    Do you really believe you have to do something to get to Heaven? If so, that would explain why you are so determined to be in church all the time... You don't trust Christ to take you, you are trusting in your righteousness... And self-righteousness won't cut it...

     

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