re-baptism

Alcott wrote:
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“Long ago I thought about that when my baptist churches required rebaptism of those joining from the Disciples of Christ, Church of Christ, or Pentecostals churches which also baptise professed believers by immersion. Finally I am a member of a church which will accept such people as full members.”
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** As I understand it, the Church of Christ teaches that the person being baptized contacts the blood of Christ in the waters of the baptismal pool.

** The Church of Christ further teaches that baptism by immersion is a requirement for salvation and that you cannot be saved if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ but do not get baptized.

** If we follow the scriptural practice in the New Testament, (which is supposed to be OUR rule of faith and practice) the ONLY believer’s baptism that is acceptable is administered by a Bible Believing Christian - NOT a heretic who teaches salvation by works - such as the Church of Christ or the Roman Catholic Church.
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Johnv wrote:
“Baptism of someone who was immersed, and was baptised after accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, even if that baptism is in a Roman Catholic Church, is a valid Baptism as per our Baptist Distinctives.”
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** As I understand the Baptist Distinctives, They include:

(1) Biblical Authority
The Bible is the final authority in all matters of belief and practice because the Bible is inspired by God and bears the absolute authority of God Himself. Whatever the Bible affirms, Baptists accept as true. No human opinion or decree of any church group can override the Bible. Even creeds and confessions of faith, which attempt to articulate the theology of Scripture, do not carry Scripture's inherent authority.
2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20, 21

** Johnv - Would you be so kind as to cite the scripture(s) which indicate that a 'baptism' by a Roman Catholic or a Church of Christ or a Oneness Holiness Pentacostal, etc. is recognized as valid believer’s baptism? Clearly those heretics were NOT baptizing in the New Testament.

(2) Autonomy of the Local Church
The local church is an independent body accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ, the head of the church. All human authority for governing the local church resides within the local church itself. Thus the church is autonomous, or self-governing. No religious hierarchy outside the local church may dictate a church's beliefs or practices. Autonomy does not mean isolation. A Baptist church may fellowship with other churches around mutual interests and in an associational tie, but a Baptist church cannot be a "member" of any other body.
Colossians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5, 19, 23

The second Baptist Distinctice is pretty clear that NNE outside the local church can enforce his opinion of what constitutes valid believer’s baptism, on any local church of which he is not a member.

(3) Two Ordinances
The local church should practice two ordinances: (1) baptism of believers by immersion in water, identifying the individual with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, and (2) the Lord's Supper, or communion, commemorating His death for our sins.
Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-32

** This Baptist Distinctive is clear that a believer’s baptism by immersion in water identifies him with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.
Since the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of Christ and many others do Not Teach this or believe this, they are not practicing baptism in the New Testament way - therefore their 'baptism' is invalid.
EVEN IF they baptize by immersion, they have the 'method' right but they still don’t have the doctrinal meaning right.

(4) Saved, Baptized Church Membership
Local church membership is restricted to individuals who give a believable testimony of personal faith in Christ and have publicly identified themselves with Him in believer's baptism. When the members of a local church are believers, a oneness in Christ exists, and the members can endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Acts 2:41-47; 1 Corinthians 12:12; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 4:3

** Does this Baptist Distinctive sound like what the Roman Catholic Church practices and believes concerning church membership, salvation and baptism?

(5) Two Offices
The Bible mandates only two offices in the church--pastor and deacon. The three terms--"pastor," "elder," and "bishop," or "overseer"--all refer to the same office. The two offices of pastor and deacon exist within the local church, not as a hierarchy outside or over the local church.
1 Timothy 3:1-13; Acts 20:17-38; Philippians 1:1

** Again, does this Baptist Distinctive sound like what the RCs believe and practice? Doesn’t the Catholic Church have Nuns, Priests, Archbishops, Cardinals, Popes, ‘Fathers’, Monks, Cloistered Nuns, etc.?
If folks do not believe like the New Testament teaches and like Bible Believing Baptists believe, then it is wrong to accept their baptism just because their ‘method’ is right, when their doctrinal beliefs are so far astray from scripture.

** The Baptist Distinctives I used here are from this website.
Baptist Distinctives

 

Here's an easier way to answer the question. If a person was baptised as an adult believer in the Presbyterian church, is their baptism null and void if they become a Baptist?

 

Mike McK said:

He was told by the baptist church that he would have to be baptised, even though he had been baptised in his former denom, because they would not transfer a letter of membership.

Ridiculous. The Bible says that baptism is the public sign of having put on Christ (Gal. 3:27), identifying with his death, symbolically dying to sin and rising again to the new life (Rom. 6:3-4). Baptism is into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13), not a local assembly.

Assuming the member in question is in good standing, the church he is leaving ought to have no problem providing documentation of his having been publicly baptized, and the church he is going to ought to have no problem accepting it.

Otherwise, I suspect there are issues in one or the other church (or both) that go beyond the mere administration of the ordinance.

 

Johnv asked:

If a person was baptised as an adult believer in the Presbyterian church, is their baptism null and void if they become a Baptist?

No. It is valid.

 

Caretaker said:

A little apostasy corrupts the entire Body.

It seems to me that someone leaving the Roman church and joining a Baptist church results in less apostasy, not more.

 

Either some of you folks who post here are not really Bible Believing Baptists or you are just posting stuff you don't actually believe, to get other people to post in answer to your disingenuous posts.

Presbyterians generally practice sprinkling - not immersion.

"Sprinkling" is not baptism by ANY scriptural definition no matter who thinks it is.

What saith the scriptures?

NO!!! - a Presbyterian "sprinkling" does NOT qualify as VALID believer's baptism.

If you think otherwise, how about listing the scriptures that indicate "sprinkling" is a valid baptism?

 

Remember Grady Nutt? He used to say that the Greek for "baptize" means "hold 'em under till they bubble."

 

Okay, let me be more specific: If a person was baptised BY IMMERSION as an adult believer in the Presbyterian church, is their baptism null and void if they become a Baptist?

 

Sorry it took me so long to get back, and before I begin let me say. Amen Drew.

To answer your question, I believe you have imagined a slippery slope where one does not exist. The slippery slope is on the other side of once you accept baptism from other denominations, where do you stop.

For your question, baptism in my opinion, should be accepted when it comes from a church of like faith and practice to the church for which you are applying for membership. A Baptist church should require that when you were baptized, you had the same understanding of salvation and baptism that you do now. Thus, I would accept any scriptural baptism (believer's baptism by immersion) from a Baptist (which should mean like faith and practice on the essentials).

On a more theological matter, what does Baptism baptize you into. Is it the universal church? No, not unless you believe in baptismal regeneration. You enter the universal church upon salvation. Baptism should be your public profession of Christ and your association with the local body of believers. Thus, when coming to a correct view,(Baptist in my opinion), you should be willing to be rebaptized or in my view baptized correctly.

I look forward to further dialogue on this issue, so please tell me what you think. God bless.

 

Then why switch denominations? Usually, it's because you prefer the faith and practice of the denomination you're going to. Obviously, no two churches have "exact" faith and practice. So I guess it falls upon what determines "like" faith and practice. Now, as far as Baptism, if you were Baptized by immersion, after accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, that seems to be the ONLY biblical requirement. Christian Baptism does not baptize you into a denomination. Hence, if you've been immersed following salvation, be it by a street preacher with no denominational ties, or by a non-Baptist denominational church, your baptism would not be invalid.

 

rbrent,

There aleady is a Roman Catholic Baptist Church; it's called the Southern Baptist Convention.

 

This thread is amazing and unbelievable--seems as if it's more important to be a Baptist than a Christian, or a certain version of Baptist, anyway.

 

Baptist born, Baptist bred asked:

A Baptist church should require that when you were baptized, you had the same understanding of salvation and baptism that you do now.

Ridiculous. Scripture says that baptism is a symbol of death with Christ and resurrection unto new life (Rom. 6:4). What you are saying, essentially, is that baptism is a symbol of greater theological understanding. Should someone who was baptized as a new believer be re-baptized because in the twenty years since he has become an accomplished Pauline theologian? That would hardly qualify as "the same understanding of salvation and baptism," to be sure!

On a more theological matter, what does Baptism baptize you into.

We are baptized into Christ (Rom. 6:3), not into a local assembly.

 

I share your concern. It's almost as though the Baptist Message is Salvation by faith alone, with the exception of Baptism.

Not unlike the recent thread which practically made John 3:16 sound like it read "For God so loved the world, except for homosexuals..."

 

I've read the post, and he was 12 years old and baptized in A Church of God (fully immersed). Church of God believes the only prerequisite for membership is salvation, and all denominations are accepted. They have no legalistic views on membership, anyone professing Christ as thier Lord and Savior is already considered a member of Christ's Church and theirs therefore they recieve and send no letters. The only major doctrinal views different than Baptist's are they still believe gifts are given by the Holy Spirit (Tounges, phrophesy, etc.) I attended C.O.G. before I became Baptist and although they believed gifts could still be given, I was personnally never in a C.O.G. where tounges where spoken. Does this change anything or are they heretical too? If so, then that only leaves us Baptists. I guess now you're saying that Baptist's have the only authority to baptize. Funny, I've always thought the Church of Christ was heretical for saying they were the only true New Testament Church. Now I hear some in my own denomination make a similar claim!! How ridiculous!!

 

Well, You don't have to run off just because I got here.

 

That may be easy to do when confronted with the facts. The question remains: Who was the first in the reformation era to have a real New Testament baptism, by immersion on profession of faith in Christ? and how did (s)he have such a baptism if the one who baptized him did not have such real NT baptism?

 

Non-baptist flaming on a Baptist-only thread

[ February 04, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]

 

Hello Ray Berrian-

While your post is typical of the views of so many folks who are not studied up on the issue of baptism, it does not comport with reality.

Instead, it relies on pictures you've seen of someone pouring water on Jesus' head while he stands knee deep in the water or it relies on human 'logic' instead of what the scripture actually says.

The word baptize is never used in the scriptures to mean sprinkle or pour.

There are other words for sprinkle and pour.

Baptize means to dip, plunge, immerse.

Unless you are an Evangelical Baptist, which apparently is not the case from reading your Profile, you are not supposed to be posting in the Baptist Forums...