Real Issues Facing Black America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bro. Curtis, Oct 5, 2005.

  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    While looking for prominent conservative Black pundit's comments on Bennett, (which I'm sure will come...), I came across the following on Larry Elder's site. (Some will disregard it, because he writes for World Net Daily).

    First, he says the following...

    "For many people, past discrimination means present and future discrimination. End of discussion. Never mind the growing black economy, an all-time high percentage of black homeownership, and a "black GDP" that would make black America the 16th wealthiest country in the world."

    He then lists the following as real issues that need to be dealt with....

    The War on Drugs. By making drugs illegal, lawmakers intended to target minorities – specifically blacks, Mexicans and Chinese. Former President Theodore Roosevelt's drug adviser warned, "Cocaine is often a direct incentive to the crime of rape by the Negroes." In "The American Disease," David Musto notes that prohibitions early in the 20th century, at least in part, targeted foreigners or minorities, including the allegedly opium-using Chinese. In 1937, the Marihuana Tax Act targeted Mexican immigrants. In 1936, a Colorado newspaper editor wrote to federal officials, "I wish I could show you what a small marijuana cigarette can do to one of our degenerate Spanish-speaking residents."

    Race-Based Preferences. Lowering admission standards to achieve "diversity" hurts black graduation rates. The Detroit News looked at the graduation rates at seven Michigan colleges and universities. Blacks graduated within six years at a rate of 40 percent, compared to 61 percent for whites and 74 percent for Asians. Many mismatched students simply drop out when they would have been successful at a less competitive university. One study says that the failure of minority students to graduate at the same rate as white students causes a loss in the "black economy" of $5.3 billion a year in income.

    Gun Control. Gun-control laws, in the beginning, sought to disarm blacks. Chief Justice Roger Brooke Taney, in the infamous Dred Scott case which defined blacks as property, said that if blacks were "entitled to the privileges and communities of citizens ... t would give persons of the negro race ... the right ... to keep and carry arms wherever they went ... inevitably producing discontent and insubordination among them, and endangering the peace and safety of the state ..." In "Condi: The Condoleezza Rice Story," author Antonia Felix describes the secretary of state's early years in the Jim Crow South. Rice watched her father and neighbors guard black neighborhoods with shotguns against armed, white vigilantes. Felix writes, "The memory of her father out on patrol lies behind Rice's opposition to gun control today. Had those guns been registered, she argues, Bull Connor would have had a legal right to take them away, thereby removing one of the black community's only means of defense."

    The Davis-Bacon Act. Introduced in 1927, this Act sought to shut out black workers from competing for construction jobs when whites complained that Southern blacks were hired to build a Long Island Veteran's Bureau hospital. In a labor market dominated by exclusionary unions demanding above-market wages, blacks at one time competed by working for less money than the unionists. Davis-Bacon stopped this by requiring federal contractors to pay prevailing union wages, causing massive black unemployment.

    Social Security. Although Congress did not intend for Social Security to disproportionately hurt blacks, it does. Blacks have a shorter life expectancy, and therefore get less out of the system. According to the CATO Institute, "A 1996 study by ... the RAND Corporation found ... a net lifetime transfer of wealth from blacks to whites averaging nearly $10,000 per person ... A 1998 study by the Heritage Foundation ... found that an average single black man will pay $13,377 more in payroll taxes over his lifetime than he will receive in benefits, a return of just 88 cents on every dollar paid in taxes."

    Minimum Wage. In "Free to Choose," Nobel laureate economist Milton Friedman writes that before the imposition of minimum-wage laws, black teens were more likely to be employed than white teens. After the imposition of minimum-wage laws, an employment gap emerged between white and black teens, with black teens becoming increasingly less employed. Friedman finds "... the minimum-wage law to be one of the most, if not the most anti-black law on the statute books."

    LINK

    Any thoughts ?
     
  2. Filmproducer

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    Much of what Larry Elder says is true. However, what exactly does he claim to do about the issues you listed? Specifically the Davis-Bacon Act and minimum wage laws? Also, I'm not exactly sure how gun-control reform hurts African Americans today. I have no doubt about the history, but how relevant is that today, (specifically for African Americans)? I would think this is an issue for all Americans who oppose gun-control and fear 2nd amendment violations. I would really like to see what he says about this. When it is all said and done, he is right, these problems need to be addressed. I'm sure the if any dispute arises, it would be over how to correct the problem.
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

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    Well one way is to convince Blacks that Louis Farrakhan, Jessie Jackson, & Al Sharpton do not have their best interests at heart. We can show people how these issues have hurt them, and tell them to think about it next election.

    Race-baiting hurts. Pointing to Bennett as the problem hurts. Looking for statements from conservatives to take out of context and exploit hurts .
     
  4. Dragoon68

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    Correct, Bro. Curtis!

    By the way, I enjoy Larry Elder's comments and have read some of his books including "Ten Things You Can't Say in America".

    Louis Farrakhan, Jessie Jackson, and Al Sharpton are losers desparate to hang onto to their tight grip over some black Americans by using their tired old messages centered in racial hatred.
     
  5. Filmproducer

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    OK, but how are you going to do this? Let me put it this way, if a you believed someone was being taught false doctrine in a church, would you openly condemn the pastor, or would you give evidence of why his doctrine was false? I seriously doubt that if you try to tell African Americans that these leaders that you mentioned are "race-baiting", etc., and not really helping them, that they would listen. You also have to remember that the media is part of the problem. Instead of talking about real issues the take snippets of comments and create animosity. They do it to the conservatives and the liberals alike. It makes for more interesting TV, therefore better ratings, therefore more money.

    As far as Farrakhan and Sharpton are concerned they do focus a lot attention of racial issues only, you will get no argument from me. As far as Jackson is concerned, you may not like him or his politics, however, I believe you will have a hard time convincing people that the programs of the Rainbow Coalition are ultimately going to hurt the African American population. I challenge anyone to prove that the programs are a detriment to the African American population. I think a better approach would be to inform people why you believe liberal policies are wrong and conservative policies are beneficial. Focus on the issue, not the person. IMHO, you would probably have more success.

    By the way, I understand that people believe Bennett's statements were taken out of context, and I agree. Why do not think that Jackson's statements could be taken out of context by the media? A racial remark does not necessarily blame the problem on race. When he blamed the slow response of Katrina in NO on race, that was wrong. He however, immediately went on to change his statement to poor people, not specifically African Americans. Why does he not deserve the benefit of the doubt, like Bennett? Both statements were wrong and offensive, because they were categorically untrue. Both statements were racist in nature. Why don't both deserve the benefit of the doubt?
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

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    First of all, it's not my success that needs validating. Mr. Elder did a wonderful job describing what hurts his population. Any expounding would be redundant.

    Second, perhaps I shouldn't have included Jackson. His coalition has plenty of critics, but we'll save him for later.

    Third, if the doctrine was harmful, or so I thought, I would not hesitate to walk out, and it would be very hard for me to hold my tongue. You don't solve problems by hoping they go away, or hoping nobody's paying attention.
     
  7. Dragoon68

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    Jackson is a race monger and Bennett is not. Jackson has been flapping his gums to the same tune for years and there can't be much doubt about him. He's all about making race and issue in every matter.
     
  8. Bro. Curtis

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    Plus, Jackson has been heard calling Jews derogatory names. Bennet didn't call anyone names. Jackson gets no benefit from me. I've heard and seen enough of what he does, to know he doesn't help anyone, 'cept Jessie Jackson.
     
  9. Bunyon

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    It is an undisputed fact that Jackson faked his account of his last moments with ML King. He was a minor lieutenant in MLK's entourage. Shotly after King was killed he showed up on tv with a blood stained shirt claiming to have beent the last one to talk with King as King gave his last words to Jackson. He claimed ot have held King's head as the the man died. All of the other, more respectable, members of Kings party, including Andrew Young, stated that it was a lie and they don't know where Jackson got the blood, but he was not anywhere around when MLK died. One even says he ran away when he heard the shots. He showed up in Chicago later that day making the same claims with the same bloody shirt. It is a bonafide lie of the lowest and ugliest kind, and even Jackson has never tried to defend it.

    He started as the lowest kind of liar, and he is still the lowest kind of liar.
     
  10. Filmproducer

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    First of all, it's not my success that needs validating.

    I did not necessarily mean you, I meant in general. The claim was made that the African American population would be better without it's supposed "black leaders". My question was how this would be accomplished.

    Third, if the doctrine was harmful, or so I thought, I would not hesitate to walk out, and it would be very hard for me to hold my tongue. You don't solve problems by hoping they go away, or hoping nobody's paying attention.

    Once again I believe you misunderstand me. I was trying to use an example of how one might react to someone else claiming their pastor was doctrinally wrong. Maybe it was not the best example. I was using it to find out how one might accomplish getting rid of the supposed "black leadership". Instead of "attacking", so to speak, these men, wouldn't one have a better chance of success laying out why conservative policies are better than liberal policies? In all honesty that is the real issue, is it not? Even so, I'm not sure what that has to do with hoping a problem will disappear by not paying attention?

    Once again, I do not doubt that you do not like Jackson or his politics. My question asked how the Rainbow Coalition actually does a disservice to African Americans? The one really has nothing to do with the other.
     
  11. Bro. Curtis

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    Then why do you keep bringing it up ? I don't know about the rainbow coalition. And I never said it hurt Blacks. If you're happy with it, fine. But there are issues in the O/P you seem to ignore.

    Did Mr Jackson's "hymie town" comments help, or hurt his cause ? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Not his coalition.
     
  12. Filmproducer

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    I brought it up because it is relevant to one of your solutions to the problem at hand. The programs of the Rainbow Coalition help many African Americans and many poor in general, not to mention many entrepreneurs. Jackson is the head of the Rainbow Coalition and spearheaded many of the programs.

    What issues do I ignore? I believe I agreed with the issues or at least the history, and asked which ones are relevant today. I also asked specifically what can be done with the problem. I also claimed that if there was any opposition it would most likely be over how to solve the problem, not the problem itself. Again, I was speaking in generalities, not necessarily speaking of myself.

    As far as his comments. In a sense they might have hurt his cause with those who do not like him politically, but not those who are helped by him or the Rainbow Coalition. You've got to remember that he is not supported because of his comments or what he says to the media. He is supported by the results of his causes and programs (i.e., his actions outside of the media). So until conservatives step up and take a similar approach and try to help Jackson supporters, (i.e., the African American, the poor, and minority entrepreneurs), through specific programs, than everything else is just political mumbo-jumbo. You will not be able to change the minds of those who support him. (Again I am speaking in generalities.)
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

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    So it's OK to deride Jews, as long as yer passing out $$ to the poor. :rolleyes: Actually, that does enough damage. I wonder what he's said when the mics are off.....

    Look, I don't trust him, and I'm sure if I look long enough, I'll find some of his coalition critics. AFAIK, the coalition does great things like making towns have gay pride days ( LINK).

    So in the interest of staying on topic, why don't you list the ways the coalition has countered the damage done by the programs in the O/P ?

    And Larry Elder, Lashawn Barber, and others are conservatives that help, by telling blacks to stop blaming their problems on whitey, get off welfare, and take pride in themselves, and responsibility for themselves.
     
  14. church mouse guy

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    When I lived in Chicago, I saw Jackson speak once. It was on a street corner and he was surrounded by body guards so that his head just bobbed out once in ahile so that you might get a glimse of him. He was afraid in those days. He always was very well dressed and had lots of money. I think that one could look at his methods for getting money from corporations as part of his testimony. But his personal life is a mess and that has to be taken into consideration also when evaluating him as a leader. But now he lives in the silk stocking Chicago neighborhood of Hyde Park, south on Lake Shore Drive about 63rd street on Lake Michigan.

    About his whereabouts when MLK was murdered--although he claimed a blood-stained shirt from the event, I did not think that he was even in Memphis. That lie was exposed 35 years ago.

    Another think that Jackson did that was illegal was that he took up campaign collections in church sanctuaries during services when he was running for President. I think that the law making churches stay out of politics should be repealed based upon what the Black churches did and are doing. If the church is not going to obey a law about political money, what kind of church is it?
     
  15. Bunyon

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    ""You've got to remember that he is not supported because of his comments or what he says to the media.""----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That is where some of his money comes from, but that really has nothing to do with his political power. He gets that by being the go to man for the democrates when they need to marshal the black troops. Do you think he Clinton called on Jackson for marriage counselling becouse Jackson was a minister, or head or RBC, or even for marriage counseling? He is their go to guy politicaly. He probably ended up being their go to guy because others like Andrew Young probably would not sell out "the cause" like Jackson did.
     
  16. ScottEmerson

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    Race-based preferences have allowed so many more African-Americans to have the opportunity to be in college than would have been without it. Instead of getting rid of race-based preferences, we should increase funding to help the black community succeed in college. Much of this should be done in public schools, and a lot can be done in the colleges and universities as well. But let's not take away the opportunity for success. Let's enhance their ability to utilize that opportunity instead.

    I think people forget that we are only two generations away from segregation here in the South. We're not making immediate progress, but we are making progress. We must continue on the path of racial equality so that African-American men and women can be as much of a success in the US as Caucasians.
     
  17. Filmproducer

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    So it's OK to deride Jews, as long as yer passing out $$ to the poor.

    FYI, the programs do not pass out money to the poor.

    RPC Program One- 1000 Churches Connected

    *mission- One Thousand Churches Connected is an initiative of the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition designed to bring the message of economic responsibility to families through churches across the country.
    Based on MLK's Freedom Symphony, this program is based on the 4th movement-equal economic opportunity and shared economic security.

    *goals- Through partnerships with Freddie Mac, Citigroup, Intuit, Equifax, The New York Stock Exchange, the National Association of Investors Corporation and others, we have developed the most comprehensive curriculum and training program available today. In the Bible, there are over 2,350 references to financial stewardship. Financial stewardship is the single most talked about topic in the Bible; however, we have not embraced it in our culture which has caused many of us to remain in financial bondage.

    Specific Goals
    *Debt Elimination based on Rm. 13:8
    *Responsible Credit Management- Ps. 37:21
    *Homeownership rather than renting- Pv.19:14
    *Investment- Mt. 25:14-30
    *Asset Protection- 2 Kings 20:1
    *Technology- Pv. 18:15

    RPC Program Two- HIV/AIDS Initiative

    *mission- The PUSH For Life HIV/AIDS (PFL) Initiative began in March 2000. The program arose out of a need for leadership from the Civil Rights Community around HIV/AIDS in the African American and Latino community. Funded by Bristol-Myers Squibb Company, the program is housed out of the National Office in Chicago, Illinois.

    *goals/iniatives

    1. Developing a Political Voice to help drive national policy through increased funding for the Ryan White Care Act, which provides states with funds to improve access to drug therapies and improved quality of care for HIV/AIDS patients

    2. Establishing an Advocacy Presence that draws the attention to the plight faced by America's underserved communities through various venues (i.e., National Town Hall meetings, public speaking and legislative activities)

    3. Creating a Public Awareness Campaign designed to raise awareness regarding education, prevention, care and treatment

    4. Mobilizing a Faith-Based Minister's Awareness and Testing Campaign geared toward reducing stigma and building outreach capacity among leaders of the faith community

    5. Connecting the Disconnected: International Adopt an Orphanage Program intended to link African American churches with orphanages in South Africa.

    RPC Program Three- International Trade Bureau

    *mission- We advocate on behalf of our members to gain access to corporate entities, make referrals to our Trading Partners in the public and private sector and encourage and arrange vertical trade among our members.

    RPC Program Four- Prison Outpost

    *mission- The ultimate goal of this ministry is to eliminate the needs for prisons; provide information and programs to prisoners and to the larger community; finally, to be the spiritual voice for the "down trodden and the unloved".

    *services-

    1. Weekly visits to prisons and jails to conduct worship services

    2. Private and small groups consulting with inmates and community people

    3. Developing and participating in special programs within the IDOC

    4. Community forums

    5. Influence Legislature to have a positive impact on The Dept. Of Corrections.

    6. Art and Creative Writing classes & Workshops behind the "WALLS"

    7. Clothing and Reading material drives for the unfortunate

    8. Conduct Workshops on Prisoner Awareness; prison volunteers

    AFAIK, the coalition does great things like making towns have gay pride days

    The link was not about Jackson's Rainbow/Push Coalition. I have no doubt there are critics of Jackson or his RPC, but this was not one.

    And Larry Elder, Lashawn Barber, and others are conservatives that help, by telling blacks to stop blaming their problems on whitey, get off welfare, and take pride in themselves, and responsibility for themselves.

    As I mentioned before these conservatives are not out in the community as much as Jackson. It does no good to sit and talk about problems, and how to solve them, without actually doing something about it. Actions speak louder than words.

    For the record, the majority of African Americans do not blame their problems on "whitey", as you claim.


    Also, the majority of African Americans are not dependent on welfare. Yes, just as the prison population there is a higher incidence of welfare usage in proportion to population size, but the majority are not. Did you know that in 2001 the poverty levels for African Americans was at a historic low of 22.7%. Mind you this is 22.7% of all 32.9 million people living at or below the poverty line. During this same time the poverty levels of non-Hispanic white Americans rose .4% to 7.8%. Of the 22.7% of blacks 80.8% received some type of means based assistance. 74.9% received reduced school lunches, 33.4 received cash assistance, 47.2% received food stamps, and 65.2% were on Medicaid. Please note: These numbers are percentages of percentages, (i.e., 47.2% of the 22.7% of the 32.9 million received food stamps). These are taken directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Bureau of the Census

    If you want to look at even more current numbers. In 2004, according to the US Dept. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 26.5%, of working African Americans 16 and over, worked in management, professional, and related occupations. 23.8% worked in the service occupations. 26.3% worked in sales and office occupation. 6.8% worked in natural resource, construction, or maintenance occupations, and 16.7% worked in production, transportation, and material moving occupations. These numbers are not drastically different from the breakdown of the non-Hispanic white. which were 35.6%, 15.2%, 25.5%, 11.2%, and 12.4% respectively.

    Now how are African Americans not taking pride in themselves or responsibility for their problems? Here is why the common misconceptions of African Americans is harmful, they do not apply to the majority. As I stated earlier, it is more a conservative politics vs. liberal politics problem.


    I think people forget that we are only two generations away from segregation here in the South. We're not making immediate progress, but we are making progress. We must continue on the path of racial equality so that African-American men and women can be as much of a success in the US as Caucasians.

    Exactly!
     
  18. Filmproducer

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    As far as the problems in O/P. I have agreed with the history. I don't necessarily think all of them are serious problems today. I asked what was to be done about the problems, so that I could respond. The response I received was to eliminate the current "black leadership", therefore that is what I responded to. A lot of people claim this, and I wonder how it can be realistically accomplished.
     
  19. Bro. Curtis

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    Well, I disagree, I see Jackson, Farakhan, & Sharpton as leaders they should drop. I see them as doing what they can to keep blacks dependant on government programs, programs that have proved to be failures over & over.

    And I'm bowing out before I get accused of being a racist.
     
  20. Filmproducer

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    And I'm bowing out before I get accused of being a racist.

    :confused: I have never accused any one of being racist, just because they do not agree with me.

    Well, I disagree, I see Jackson, Farakhan, & Sharpton as leaders they should drop. I see them as doing what they can to keep blacks dependant on government programs, programs that have proved to be failures over & over.

    I respect your opinion, although I don't agree. I don't see how Jackson, in particular, is working to keep African Americans dependent on government programs? Programs such as 1000 Churches Connected seem to do just the opposite. It would seem to me that if these people were "race mongers" they would want to make sure that African Americans stayed away from government programs. After all the government would be the problem. Once again, I believe there is confusion between conservative vs. liberal and racial.
     

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