Okay, an interesting enough topic, which has a number of issues that might be discussed. And since the other thread closed, and the discussion wasn't finished, I will kick this off with a few of the posts that went unanswered. This one is addressed to someone else other than myself, but, it is an interesting assertion and and even more interesting response: This member believes that men did not go into Heaven at death, his reasoning that Messiah had not come and redeemed them (implied). He also makes the point that the New Covenant is far superior, something few would disagree with. I agree with both these points. I do not agree with the statement concerning "not all of them experiencing the Holy Spirit," because all believers in the Old Testament certainly did experience the Holy Spirit. But, the distinction between the ministry of the Holy Ghost under the (Covenant of) of Law and the ministry of the Holy Ghost in this current Age, under the New Covenant, is quite different. In both Ages believers "experience" the Holy Ghost, but only in this Age are believers Eternally indwelt. Here is the response, and I will give the link in the first quote: First, we see the same false argument this member reiterates consistently, even though he has been told numerous times that those of us that make the distinctions Christ makes between the Covenants (as well as the Apostles, as well as Prophecy itself) that men have always been saved by grace through faith. Look at this closely... No, your position does not have them "savED" at all but only THE PROMISE of FUTURE salvation. The fact is, even though they were saved, they still anticipated future salvation even as we do. Did someone just gasp? lol That's right, we, born again believers, await future salvation. I don't know about you, but my own body is beginning to break down. I highly anticipate salvation from the presence of sin, and that body which is made by God. In other words, we await the future redemption of our bodies. There is no difference between being saved and not eternally redeemed, and being saved and being eternally redeemed (through Christ's Work) and both still awaiting future salvation. Salvation does not reach its cculmination until we are in the Eternal State. Doesn't mean we aren't saved. And it doesn't mean that the Old Testament Saints, who were not forgiven their sins by the mythological "credit" that makes its way across most pulpits, were not saved, or any less saved than we are. But what it does mean is that though they were saved by grace through faith, they still awaited future salvation that was promised to them by God. That Promise began in the Garden (Genesis 3:15), and becomes made more clrear progressively as Redemptive History passes. We know more in God's promises to Abraham than we do when God rebukes Satan, and we know more in God's promises to David than we did when God made promise to Abraham. And we know more than David did. Again, a false argument that has been addressed several times in the thread this is taken from. And I apologize for this member's style of address. Now, here is the thing, and this member has had this pointed out to him, yet he still continues with the false argument: Yeshua doesn't have them spiritually separated...God does. Consider: John 14:15-18 King James Version (KJV) 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. The simple point is that Christ is here telling the disciples that He is going to send...the Comforter. He says this cannot happen until He goes away, which in the context of the Gospel/s refers to His return to Heaven: John 16:7 King James Version (KJV) 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Now, think about that: can we say that Christ doesn't mean what He says? Is He not saying that He is going to send the Spirit? Now can you tell me...how the Comforter can already be indwelling men prior to His coming? It's a simple point. It is a clear point. It is reiterated by Christ numerous times. Yet confusion about the Ministry of the Spirit in the Old Testament and the Ministry of the Spirit in the New seems to be the theme of some. And I think I'll stop there, with just the added note that "rebaptism" is denied in the other thread. They can't be rebaptized with the Holy Ghost because they were, in the view of some, already having the Spirit of God. The point above is just an example of how that is rationalized. God bless.