Receiving !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    The Nature of the act of Faith is expressed by the Spirit by the word receiving Jn 1:12

    12 But as many as received[by faith] him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    Rom 5:11

    11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received by faith the atonement.

    Which receiving is an act of the soul or conscience, this is not an outward receiving like we do with our physical hands as if someone is physically offering or handing us something literally.

    The Elect Receive forgiveness of sins Acts 10:43

    43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    When they believe, but we believe as a result of having that spiritual knowledge of forgiveness or remission of sins made known to us; for it [forgiveness of sins] is a Covenant Blessing for all of the Many that Christ died in behalf of Matt 26:28

    28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    That is a New Covenant Blessing to a Elect People is stated clearly in Heb 8:10-12

    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    vs 12 That is the blessing of remission of sins that Christ refers to in Matt 26:28 for the Many !

    And God makes known His Covenant[and remission of sins] to them fearing Him Ps 25:14

    14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew[cause them to know] them his covenant.

    Its this God causing them to know it which causes them to receive it by Faith !

    So God makes known the benefits of His Covenant to them fearing Him ! Yet who is it that fears Him ? For none by nature do that per Rom 3:18

    18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

    But it is only those who have been born of the Spirit Heb 8:10

    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    This God does by putting His Spirit into us Ezk 36:26-27


    King James Version (KJV)


    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    And so being born of the Spirit of which Faith is a fruit of Gal 5:22

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

    Then through that spiritual faith of the spirit God gives the instrumental means of making known the Covenant Blessing of Remission of sins to Faith, and so by it, we receive Remission of sins by Faith, which Faith persuades us of the reality of the Blessing !

    Faith in fact is from the greek word peithō which means:


    persuade

    a) to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

    So thats how one receives Remission of sins by Believing Acts 10:43, they were persuaded by the Spirit, and not only forgiveness of sins but also any other spiritual blessing effected by the Blood of Christ, like Justification by His Blood Rom 5:9

    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Faith receives that as it is revealed or made known to them by the Spirit and the Word of Truth, the Gospel of their Salvation !

    I have just explained a biblical view of receiving spiritual realties by Faith !
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    As you define "receiving"

    You qualify the Bible by defining words to suit your theological goal - your private interpretation of scripture.
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    Acts 16:31 Don't Boast !



    Acts 16:31

    31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Many who are absolutely ignorant to Salvation by Grace through Faith Eph 2:8-9

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    But yet if we attribute our salvation to our act of Faith or believing, then we do the very thing spoken against, that is boast, even if its a unspoken boast. So to explain our text Acts 16:31, which sets forth an imperative to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, it is but a calling forth or into action the Gift of Faith. For genuine faith or belief in Christ is not something that is found in men by nature, for all men by nature are in the prison of unbelief Rom 11:32

    32 For God hath concluded[enclosed] them all in or into unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    So Paul and all the other Apostles or True Servants of God, when giving the imperative or command to believe ,they presuppose the Gift of Faith or believing has been given, for Paul knew if the Philippian Jailor did believe on Christ after hearing the word of the Lord spake Acts 16:32 as commanded, that it would be an evidence that to him it had been given to him to do so on the behalf of Christ Phil 1:29

    29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    This verse could very well read and be True :

    "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ to believe on him" !

    To believe on Christ must be given from above Jn 3:27

    27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Therefore, if you are truly regenerated or born of the Spirit (Jn. 1:12-13) you did "receive" him by faith which you claim is an act of their conscience or soul.

    Do YOU claim to be a regenerated person? If so, WHEN did YOU receive him by your act of conscience/soul? According to your own interpertation of John 1:12-13 all who are born of the will of God did receive him - When did you receive him or are you ASHAMED of him?
     
  5. DHK

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    There is no gift of faith which you inferred from Eph.2:8,9. "It is the gift of God," does not refer to faith. The "IT" refers to the subject of the sentence which is salvation. "You are saved." How? By grace. By What means? Through Faith. IT, (salvation) is the gift of God. It (salvation) is not of ourselves. It (salvation) is not of works.
    Everything in that passage goes back to the initial subject of salvation. It is the gift of God refers to salvation, not faith. Nowhere does it say that faith is the gift of God.
    All are sinners; all need a savior. Isn't that a better translation? I think so.
    The gift of God is salvation (Eph.2:8,9)
    The gift of God is eternal life (Rom.6:23)
    But nowhere does it say that the gift of God is faith. That is your warped theology, and you have yet to prove it. Don't assume that which you cannot demonstrate from Scripture.
    Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Upon hearing the Word of God, he had everything he needed to be saved. He needed to believe.
    Let's take your interpretation and see if it makes sense for you.
    In the first half of the verse you conclude belief on Christ must be given from above.

    For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    Exegete the entire verse.

    Then to suffer for his sake must be given the same way.
    Do you suffer in the same manner that you believe.
    Do you suffer as Paul did, and the other apostles, all of whom were martyred with the possible exception of John.

    Here is an example of how the rest of the "Christian world" lives.
    A 14 year old girl is framed for tearing up pages of the Koran. She lives in an Islamic republic under Sharia law. The penalty is death or for children a life-long prison sentence for such blasphemy. But this child is illiterate. She also has a mental handicap.
    The incident is made very public. The extreme Muslim clerics rile up an angry mob of mostly illiterate Muslims. 5,000 Muslims attack a Christian community of 3,000 Christians, burning churches, houses, Bibles, and attacking the people of the village as well.
    There is the meaning of the verse:

    Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    The question that many have to ask themselves: IF you don't suffer for his sake, then have you believed?

    Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
     
  6. billwald

    billwald
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    "There is no gift of faith which you inferred from Eph.2:8,9. "It is the gift of God," does not refer to faith. The "IT" refers to the subject of the sentence which is salvation. "You are saved." How? By grace. By What means? Through Faith. IT, (salvation) is the gift of God. It (salvation) is not of ourselves. It (salvation) is not of works.
    Everything in that passage goes back to the initial subject of salvation. It is the gift of God refers to salvation, not faith. Nowhere does it say that faith is the gift of God."

    Then you agree that God can save (regenerate) people who have never heard of Jesus?
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    What do you think "through faith" refers to? What is "through faith"? The elect are chosen "to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit AND beleif of the truth" - 2 Thes. 2:13.
     
    #7 The Biblicist, Oct 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  8. billwald

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    God regenerates people who have faith in the existence of the One God who created the universe aka monotheists.
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    dhk

    Yes it does, the whole of Salvation by Grace through Faith is the Gift of God. The Gift is Christ's Offering, its through His Offering that the Elect are saved by Grace through Faith.

    The Word gift here is the word dōron:


    a gift, present

    a) gifts offered in expression of honour

    1) of sacrifices and other gifts offered to God

    2) of money cast into the treasury for the purposes of the temple and for the support of the poor

    2) the offering of a gift or of gifts

    The word denotes gifts as they are gifts sacrificed unto God. Like the gift you bring to the altar Matt 5:23

    23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

    Heb 8:3-4

    3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

    4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

    Christ is the Gift i nthat He was the sacrifice, the Offering to God for the Elect !

    1 Cor 5:7

    Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed[as a Gift] for us:


    He was the Gift and altar Heb 13:10

    We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

    So you lack understanding in this matter of the Gift of God, its not an offer made to men to either accept it or reject it ! Its the Offering Christ made to God of Himself, and that produces for all He died for, Salvation by Grace through Faith !
     
  10. DHK

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    Yes, however the gift refers back to the subject of the passage as I already exegeted for you, and that is salvation. It does not refer to the prepositional phrase "through faith" which describes "are saved". That is adverbial phrase having nothing to do with "It is a gift," which stands as a sentence in and of itself. The "it" refers back to the subject of the preceding sentence not the preceding prepositional phrase. Know your grammar, not just your presupposed theology which you ram into that verse even though it doesn't fit.
    No he isn't. The gift of God is eternal life.
    The gift of God is salvation. (Romans 6:23; Eph.2:8,9)

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    It seems you are the one that has a lack of understanding even to the very denial of Scripture.
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    dhk

    I showed you that you are in error, the Gift of God is Jesus Christ's Offering up Himself to the Father, and that results in Salvation by Grace through Faith, not of ourselves but the Gift of God, by the Work of Christ.

    Basically Paul is saying what Jesus stated here Jn 12:32

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    His being Lifted up refers to His Death, His Offering Himself as a Gift, the result is all for whom He died are saved and become believers in Him !

    Theire becoming believers in Him or coming to Him was not of their selves but because of Him, the Gift of God !

    Your explanation is meaningless and does nothing but promotre salvation by works, what man does !
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    dhk

    No its not a better translation, its your rabbit trail comment that has nothing to do with the comment I showed that you are responding to with this your rabbit trail comment. My comment with scripture was this:

    The challenge for you therefore is to show how one who is imprisoned in unbelief by nature, how they can possibly by nature believe on Christ ! Use scripture that counters the scripture I used to show that by nature, even the elect are imprisoned to unbelief !

    Scripture and not a philsophcal objection from carnal reasoning !
     
  13. DHK

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    It was an interpretation of the verse, as much as yours was an interpretation of the verse. You are allowed to give your opinion of what the verse means, but I am not?? You call your opinion valid and mine a rabbit trail? I don't consider that as much of a debate.
    Actually I did; but no matter what evidence I set before you, you will not accept it. Isn't that true?
    I have good evidence of that already. No matter how many times you are asked to give a testimony of salvation--when you were saved, trusted Christ, you will not give one will you?
    There are just certain things that you will not accept or do, and we all can see that.
    What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If my reasoning is carnal then so is yours. I have showed you plainly from Scripture that faith is not a gift from God, rather that it is salvation itself that is the gift of God. Romans 11:32 does not prove your case.

    God does not give commands that cannot be obeyed.
    He commands all men everywhere to repent.
    That contradicts your theology, but it harmonizes with mine. Man must already have the faith and ability to repent. Otherwise God would not command him to do so.
     
  14. humblethinker

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    Thank you DHK. The gift of God is salvation, which is eternal life per the verse which you offered from Romans.
     
  15. savedbymercy

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    dhk

    To you it was, to me it was irrelevant to the comment ! I am not speaking about what sinners need, nor is Paul speaking about what sinners need. Thats your problem, your theogy is man centered not God Centered !

    The challenge for you therefore is to show how one who is imprisoned in unbelief by nature, how they can possibly by nature believe on Christ ! Use scripture that counters the scripture I used to show that by nature, even the elect are imprisoned to unbelief !
     
  16. DHK

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    No one is imprisoned by unbelief. It does no good to pit scripture against scripture, and not take the Scripture as a whole.

    There are literally dozens of Scriptures, if not hundreds, that tell us "whosoever will." Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." That doesn't exclude any one.
    Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
    John 3:16,18,36; Acts 10:43; John 1:12; John 14:6; 5:24; 1Cor.15:1-4, and still many more. You have to fight against the totality of Scripture.

    The main problem you have (the same as every Calvinist) is in the definition of words).

    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    How can a dead person be made alive? Answer this question and you have the answer to Romans 11:32 as well. A person is imprisoned by unbelief. They are dead in sin. They need to be made alive. But wait! What does it mean to be dead?
    To be dead does not mean lifeless. It is not a corpse. The Ephesians were not dead corpses lying in the street that the Holy Spirit came and raised from the dead. It does not mean lifeless. They were not even lifeless spiritually in any sense of the word.
    In the Scriptures "dead" always means "separation."

    Speaking of physical separation, James says:
    James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    --When the body is separated from the spirit that is death. Death is separation.

    In Ephesians 2:1, the spirit was separated from God. It doesn't mean that man's spirit was a corpse, lifeless. He still had his spirit. It was simply separated from God. That is spiritual death. To be made alive with God his spirit had to be regenerated. The Holy Spirit had to do a work of quickening within in him, that is bring about a work of reconciliation. He needed to be reconciled to God. Sin separates. The Holy Spirit brings the spirit back to God through regeneration. "I once was lost but now am found; was blind but now I see." Newton was lost, blind, and separated from God. The Holy Spirit gave him life, found him, caused him to see, and brought him to God, that is reconciled him. He was never "dead" as in lifeless. He was simply separated from God and needed to be reconciled.
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    dhk

    Show that statement from scripture, for your statements and interpretations of things are useless here.

    In the mean time Rom 11:32

    32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    I have done it already, but study the meaning of the word concluded !
     
  18. DHK

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    I have shown you through other Scripture. You must take Scripture as a whole, and not ignore it. Now, with the "useless" Scripture (as you consider the Bible) in your mind, look at the above.

    They were concluded in unbelief. Why? That God might have mercy upon them all. The way that they might have mercy is through the cross, and their belief in Christ. Salvation still remains by grace through faith.
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    Not to quibble, but what he teaches is NOT the calvinism that I and others hold to here on the Board, its akin to hyper calvanism, which we would refute as NOT being biblical!
     
  20. billwald

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    Most of Calvin's teaching is about prayer with an emphasis on the Holy Spirit.
     

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