Refuting Catholics...Scripture or Chick tracts?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by D28guy, Jan 29, 2006.

  1. D28guy

    D28guy
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    This was posted on another thread...

    Nonsense.

    In any debate I have been involved in with Catholics, either on this web-site or others, the typical routine is this...

    Us...Gods scriptures.

    Catholics...man made traditions, fairy tales, and and "scripture twisting" *explanations* fed them the The Hierarchy.

    Us...Gods scriptures.

    Catholics...man made traditions, fairy tales, and and "scripture twisting" *explanations* fed them the The Hierarchy.

    Us...Gods scriptures.

    Catholics...man made traditions, fairy tales, and and "scripture twisting" *explanations* fed them the The Hierarchy.

    Us...Gods scriptures.

    Catholics...man made traditions, fairy tales, and and "scripture twisting" *explanations* fed them the The Hierarchy.


    On and on and on, over and over again.

    Then you havent been paying attention.

    We know how to effectively evangelize Catholics. The same way we evangelise anyone else.

    By loving them enough to tell them the truth, and by comparing the truth of the scriptures against whatever lies and falsehoods they are buying into.

    Millions...just like me...were once in the clutches of Catholicism, and we were effectively evangelised by evangelicals, the Holy Spirit blessing the truth they shared, and we are now christians.

    Well, I'm not a moderator of administrator, so I cant speak to what has gone on that I am not privy to, but I have no reason to doubt that the reasons they have given are the actual reasons.

    I personally wish they would just let all Catholics post, but its not my site, and they have their reasons.

    I havent seen one moderator "blast" any Catholics who have been banned. They have simply shared what the reasons were, to the best of their understanding.

    I would venture to say that its not just Catholics who have been banned. The reasons given...registering under false pretenses, taking multiple usernames to continue after being banned, etc...would surely apply to anyone who engages in those things, Catholic or evangelical.

    But the main point I am making here is that just about every evangelical who posts regularly on "Catholicism" threads uses one thing and one thing alone...

    The Scriptures.

    And the merry-go-round goes on and on and on...

    Scripture says this...but RCC says that.

    Scripture says this...but RCC says that.

    Scripture says this...but RCC says that.

    And the dangerous thing regarding the RCC is that in the case of the Catholic Church the "RCC says that" happens to invlove foundational and essential doctrines, such as what is required to be born again and inherit the gift of eternal life.

    Evangelicals on these boards disagree on some things. Nothing wrong with that of course, and "sparring in out" is a healthy thing. And one of these days those who disagree will both see who was right.

    In Heaven.

    In the case of Catholics, many of the issues they are wrong about will keep them from heaven, such as their denial of justification through faith alone.

    They(the RCC) place the curse of the Catholic Church on the true gospel...while God Himself places His curse on the very false gospel that Rome promotes.

    The claim that all we do is regurgitate Chick tracts is laughably false.

    Sadly,

    Mike
     
  2. Melanie

    Melanie
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    Despite all that you have writ Mike I shall keep you in my prayers this night.....
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    How about using Scriptures to convince Mike that he is wrong about Catholics ?
     
  4. riverm

    riverm
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    How about using Scriptures to convince Mike that he is wrong about Catholics ? </font>[/QUOTE]Herein lies the problem, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is chock full of Scripture. I have a copy of the Catechism and every statement the Catholic Church makes is referenced, then cross-referenced with scripture, then backed up by the Early Church Fathers and Tradition.

    So what will happen now is a merry-go-round…that interpretation of Scripture is wrong and my interpretation is right.

    Sola Scriptura fails…

    PS…This is my last post here at BB for at least 2 to 3 weeks, my family and I are moving and I am starting a new job, God provides, even if one is a Catholic sympathizer...

    Blessings to all…
     
  5. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    God be with you and your family, riverm.

    Mike,

    No. Far more accurate to say "My interpretation of Scripture says this...but the RCC's interpretation of Scripture says that." As riverm has said, the catechism is carefully referenced with Scripture verses. With what basis and authority do you assert that your interpretation is correct and the RCC's wrong and that therefore their doctrines are false and yours are true?
     
  6. D28guy

    D28guy
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    riverm,

    Have you ever read any literature by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? Or the Mormons?

    Every false cult of any size makes sure that their literature "is chock full of scripture" and that "every statement" is "referenced, then cross-referenced with scripture".

    Even as the scriptures were being inscripturated, and the apostles where still alive, "savage wolves", false teachers and false prophets were already infiltrating the body of Christ seeking to decieve. Why would anyone in their right mind therefore conclude that anything that the early church fathers taught was necesarrily true because they were from early centuries?

    I personally finsd church history to be fascinating. I love reading about it. And it serves many times to confirm truth found in the scriptures. But anything that contradicts scriptural truth is to be thrown in the trash heap. We must completly disregard anything believed, practiced, or taught by "church fathers" in the sense of any of it being used to determine authoritative truth.

    We have Gods unchanging truth standard, the scriptures, to test all things against...

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in rightiousness, that the man of God might be complete and thoroughly equipped for every good work.".

    Any tradition that contradicts Gods truth found in the scriptures is too be completly disregarded...

    "7:6
    He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.

    7:7
    And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'."...


    (The Catholic Church is based upon what Christ just admonished against.)

    "7:8
    "...For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men*--the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."

    7:9
    He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

    7:10
    For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'

    7:11
    But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban"--' (that is, a gift to God),

    7:12
    then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother,

    7:13
    making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."


    Although using examples from the Jews, Christ could not have more clearly been prophesying concerning Catholicism.


    No...the scriptures are correct, and the traditions and idolatrous false teachings of Rome are wrong.

    What a slap to the face of God.

    Not only does He expect us to use that principle...

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in rightiousness, that the man of God might be complete and thoroughly equipped for every good work.".

    ...but we see the wonderful fruit of it displayed for the world to see. How?

    After approximetly 1000 years of watching the "visible" supposed "Church" fill herself with idolatries heeped upon more idolatries, and add to that the "blood of the saints of God" on her hands by the thousands, we see a glorious return to the priciple of "sola scriptura".

    And what once were persecuted pockets of true believers exploded out into the world flying the exceedingly important and foundational twin banners of Gods truth...

    We are to turn to the scriptures alone as our authoritative truth standard, and we are justifed by faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    riverm says...

    The evidence makes clear...

    Sola Scriptura works beautifully.


    God bless,

    Mike
     
  7. D28guy

    D28guy
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    Matt Black,

    Gods testimony found in Gods scriptures.

    When Almighty God says...this.

    And sinful men contradict and say...that.

    Then men are wrong and God is correct.

    Grace and peace,

    Mike
     
  8. Charles Meadows

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    In reality we ALL (all denominations) have our own man-made interpretations.

    In this case the RCC's is more divergent than is baptist doctrine!

    But Matt has a valid point - we are all interpreting scripture and thereby stamping God's approval on our doctrinal systems. For this reason we must be careful not to spend too much time bashing other denominations.
     
  9. D28guy

    D28guy
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    Charles,

    I agree with you...to an extent.

    The scriptures tell us (in Romans 14 and others)that regarding non-foundational "periferal" issues of disagreement, that we are to keep this in mind....

    "Therefore let your brother be fully convinced in his own mind...who are you to judge anothers servant. To his own master he will stand or fall, and God will make him stand."

    Of course its a good and profitable thing for...as one example...the Calivinists and the Arminians to argue their views and convictions. Its Gods "checks and balances" system. The free-willers keep the predestination folks from becoming out of balance, and the predestination folks keep the free-willers from going out of balance.

    Nothing wrong with that at all. But we acknowledge that these are brothers and sisters in the faith, and co-laborers in the harvest. These are in house disgreements, but we still stand shoulder to shoulder against blasphemous false groups.

    But when foundational doctrines are being disregarded and replaced with heresy, idolatry, and blasphemy...as the Catholics are guilty of...then its a different story. In those cases we are to take a stand and condemn those false teachings and doctrines.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  10. Melanie

    Melanie
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    How about using Scriptures to convince Mike that he is wrong about Catholics ? </font>[/QUOTE]Why bother.....I am not a canonical lawyer and despite all the information available about Catholicism a lot of folk tend to believe in rumor and failings of the human beings within the RCC.

    Prayer is a very powerful tool and to pray for someone and enlightenment is by far more useful. My scriptual basis for this is Jesus in His agony in the garden and the comfort of an angel sent to Him by His Father.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Gods testimony found in Gods scriptures.

    When Almighty God says...this.

    And sinful men contradict and say...that.

    Then men are wrong and God is correct.

    Grace and peace,

    Mike
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, but you haven't answered the question: how are we to determine between the two using just Scripture? You have your interpretation, I have mine, the CC have theirs, etc
     
  12. Matt Black

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    I agree with you...to an extent.

    The scriptures tell us (in Romans 14 and others)that regarding non-foundational "periferal" issues of disagreement, that we are to keep this in mind....

    "Therefore let your brother be fully convinced in his own mind...who are you to judge anothers servant. To his own master he will stand or fall, and God will make him stand."

    Of course its a good and profitable thing for...as one example...the Calivinists and the Arminians to argue their views and convictions. Its Gods "checks and balances" system. The free-willers keep the predestination folks from becoming out of balance, and the predestination folks keep the free-willers from going out of balance.

    Nothing wrong with that at all. But we acknowledge that these are brothers and sisters in the faith, and co-laborers in the harvest. These are in house disgreements, but we still stand shoulder to shoulder against blasphemous false groups.

    But when foundational doctrines are being disregarded and replaced with heresy, idolatry, and blasphemy...as the Catholics are guilty of...then its a different story. In those cases we are to take a stand and condemn those false teachings and doctrines.

    God bless,

    Mike
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, but what you are saying could equally be applied to foundational doctrines.
     
  13. Chemnitz

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    I'll be honest most of what I have seen is Baptist twisting scripture to fit their theological preconceptions and RCC twisting Scripture to fit their theological preconceptions with the use of ECF's to demonstrate historisity. On some things the Baptist has been right on others the RCC has been right. Lately though I have only seen reguritations of Jack Chick propoganda and polemics, i.e. refering to the doctrine of Transubstantiation as a magic trick and originating from Egyptian sun god worship.
     
  14. mioque

    mioque
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    Despite D28guy's claims I have relatively recently seen people on this board use Dave Hunt, Ellen White, Charles Chiniquy, J.M. Carroll, Alexander Hislop and cardinal Hosius as authorities in their condemnation of Catholicism.
    Now much of this merely served as icing on a cake of Bible quotes (with a sauce of badly quoted Roman Catholic sources), but it's not like the Protestant section of this board serves up clear straightforward Scripture and nothing but clear straightforward Scripture in it's critique of the RCC.
     
  15. Eliyahu

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    RCC can simply prove that the bread and wine are turned to be flesh and blood by showing them and show the test result as Jesus proved His resurrection to Thomas.

    Chick is not the only source for such information. But some groups like Aramaic primacists are neutral but they say that the Priests in the East were called as Canna, and they were worshipping their son gods and Baal and offered the human body and blood too. After the sacrifice, they ate the rest of the human body and drank the blood and they were called Canna-Baal, which eventually became Cannibal.
    Even in Egypt the priests lifted up the cookies to their gods, like Osiris, Horus, Isis, in the same way as Holy Roman Catholic priests lift up the cookies and offer them to their goddess, Holy Mother of gods ! Only the labels are changed but the substance of the goddess worship and solar god worship, human body celebration have not changed !
     
  16. Matt Black

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    You really are making up this nonsense as you go along, aren't you? :rolleyes:
     
  17. Eliyahu

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    Stop sucking the blood on the floor of the human body slaughter house !
     
  18. HankD

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    The Church of Rome has 4 Marian Dogma which are binding on all Catholics.

    The Fifth Marian Dogma was mentioned in another thread. Many of high rank in the Fold are pushing for it. Many Catholic practices of veneration and prayers to Mary already incorporate the following principles.

    The Fifth Marian Dogma states that Mary is the Co-Redemptrix with Christ, the Mediatrix of all God's graces and the Advocate of God.

    After all the Orwellian double-speak of the Church of Rome theologians concerning Marian dogma (and others) these Scriptures will forever speak the truth.

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Of course I love Mary, but Jesus set certain priorities when it came to her place in the plan of salvation for the human race.

    Luke 11:27
    27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
    28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

    Luke 4:8 ... it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    And here is the only commandment of Mary recorded in the Scripture:

    John 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

    Good advice for Catholics as well as anyone else.

    HankD
     
  19. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    OK, I now have absolutely no idea what you're on about :confused: Are you on medication or something (NB Semi-serious question)?
     
  20. Eliyahu

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    Matt, if you continue to defend for the murderers and condemn me as non-sense without reason, I can only say that you are sucking the blood on the floor of slaughter house of the people whom you are defending,because they tortured and killed the innocent people just because they have different conviction of faith.
    You may not understand the problem with it until you reach the final judgment and unfortunately if you continue to do so, you will taste such painful torturing for billion years and the more in the Hell.
    No righteous man condone and defend the murderers against innocent people.
     

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