Regarding Judaism:

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by mima, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. mima

    mima
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    After reading first John chapter 2:23 what can we say about the condition of those who practice any form of Judaism? Are they saved or lost ?
     
  2. NateT

    NateT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    "any form of Judaism" is a bit misleading. After all there are "completed Jews" or as they're more commonly called "Messianic Jews" They have the Son and the Father.

    Apart from them, I don't see any need to limit it to Jews. If anyone - baptist, muslim, catholic, mormon and their cousins - doesn't have Christ then that person is not saved.
     
  3. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==I am not sure what you are asking. The clear Biblical teaching is that anyone who is not a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is lost (Jn 3:16-18). It does not matter if they are Jew, Baptist, Muslim, American, African, Methodist, Roman, German, etc, etc. The same rule that applies to one applies to all. Jesus said, "unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins" (Jn 8:24).

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     
  4. mima

    mima
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well what I wanted my question to bring to mind was Judaism as practiced by, the Orthodox, the Conservatives, and the reform Jews. Each of these forms of Judaism lay claim to having the Father. But the quoted verse would seem to deny that possibility.
     
  5. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    John 3:1-5 is very clear:

    "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

    "Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."


    Keep in mind that this is Jesus talking to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher of the Law. He couldn't save himself through his observance, so neither can anyone else.
     
  6. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    ==It does deny that possibility. In fact it gets even worse for people who think they can get to God apart from Jesus.

    "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him" John 5:20-23

    In Luke Jesus states, "he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me" (see Lk 10:16).

    So can a person have a relationship with God the Father apart from Jesus Christ? Not if Jesus is who He claimed to be (Lord). So the answer to the question is no a person cannot have a relationship with the Father apart from Jesus (Jn 14:6).

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     
  7. genesis12

    genesis12
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    799
    Likes Received:
    1
    The present tense of your question, "those who practice," clearly eliminates them from salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Those Jews who remain after the rapture and at the onset of the tribulation will be confronted with the Truth of Jesus Christ.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    *note: Messianic Jews = a Jew by birth who has accepted
    Jesus as their Messiah (i.e. Chosen One of God)

    I beleive the Messianic Jews* now are part of the Church and
    will be raptured/resurrected at the pretribulation rapture.
    After the pretribulatin rapture, the Antichrist will build
    up his kingdom for 3½-years until the mid-tribulation
    crises. The Antichrist will commit the AOD =
    abomination of Desolation (Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15)
    by entering the Temple and announcing that he is God.
    At the AOD most un-Messanic Jews will become Messanic Jews
    (one at a time, by accepting Jesus as Lord & Savior, just
    like we do). God will protect many of them in the Wilderness
    Revelation 12:14 for the last half of the Tribulation Period
    (3½-years). During the Tribulation Period a maximum number
    of the (now 18 Million) Jews in the world will be saved).
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    It really is simple. I wonder why there is any confusion or question about this at all: Anyone who is not a believer in Christ is lost in their sin and headed to Hell.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is that scriptural Ed?
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is that scriptural Ed? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, that is scriptural.
    Plus some arithemetic, and a bit of history.
    18,000,000 physical Jews live today, the most
    Jews that have ever lived on the earth at
    one time IN ALL HISTORY.

    NT:

    Rom 11:25-26a (KJV1611 Edition)
    For I would not, brethren, that ye should bee ignorant of this mysterie
    (least yee should bee wise in your owne conceits) that blindnesse
    in part is happened to Israel, vntill the fulnes of the Gentiles be come in.
    26 And so all Israel shall be saued, as it is written, ...

    OT:

    Jer 31:31-34 (KJV1611 Edition)

    Behold, the dayes come, saith the Lord, that I will
    make a newe couenant with the house of Israel,
    and with the house of Iudah.
    32 Not according to the couenant that I made with their
    fathers in the day that I tooke them by the hand,
    to bring them out of the land of Egypt, which my couenant
    they brake, although I was an husband vnto them, saith the Lord.
    33 But this shall be the couenant, that I will make
    with the house of Israel, After those dayes,
    saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts,
    and write it in their hearts, and wil be their God,
    and they shall be my people.
    34 And they shall teach no more euery man his neighbour,
    and euery man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:
    for they shall all know mee, from the least of them
    vnto the greatest of them, saith the Lord; for I will
    forgiue their iniquitie, and I will remember their sinne no more.


    The bolded part is the definition of
    salvation, yes?

    These prophecies must be fulfilled in
    the future.
    Unless, of course, you have the dates when that happened already ... [​IMG]
     
  12. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    NateT said:

    "any form of Judaism" is a bit misleading. After all there are "completed Jews" or as they're more commonly called "Messianic Jews"

    Or, as they are even more commonly called, "Christians."

    Christianity may be founded upon Judaism, but it is not a form of Judaism.
     
  13. mima

    mima
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    I really like the answer to this question as given by genensis12.
     

Share This Page

Loading...