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Regarding the Geneva

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Nov 25, 2004.

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  1. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    I have a copy of the Geneva in picture (vs. text) format, of an original 1611 printing on CD.

    It does NOT contain the apocrypha or any other books not in the canon Baptists use. Did the Geneva ever actually have the apocrypha?

    What is some of the history of the Geneva and what are some of the differences between it and the KJV (meaning changes--not just translational differences)?

    What manuscripts were used to translate it and who actually did the translation?

    Is the Geneva possibly a better translation than the AV 1611 version? Maybe it just didn't get the updates the AV did?

    What say you?
     
    #1 Phillip, Nov 25, 2004
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I love reading the Geneva. And have you read the notes? They are great - very reformed and anti-monarchial (both probably why KING James wanted an Anglican Version).

    Yes, it had the apocrypha. The 1560 Geneva Bible included the Apocrypha as did many later editions. Don't know when they dropped it.
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, Nov 25, 2004
  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    According to the information I have, a 1599 edition of the Geneva was the first to omit the Apocrypha, though I suspect it did not entirely disappear immediately. (The Geneva went through more than 100 printings, the last known one in 1644.)

    The Geneva, like the KJV, was heavily indebted to Tyndale's NT and to the Tyndale-Coverdale-Rogers Matthew's Bible. The basic text of the NT was an edition of Stephanus, although it's believed Beza also contributed. Thus the underlying texts of the KJV and the TGB are very, very similar.

    The translation
     
    #3 rsr, Nov 25, 2004
  4. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    That would explain why the 1611 printing did not have the Apocrypha.

    A little ironic that the "1611" printing would NOT have the apocrypha, don't you think? :D [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #4 Phillip, Nov 25, 2004
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Ever asked any KJVO about the Geneva's reading of Psalm 12:7..."thou shalt preserve HIM..."?

    I reckon that one ranks with the AV translators' marginal note for the same verse.
     
    #5 robycop3, Nov 26, 2004
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    We use the inclusion of the apocrypha to poke a hole in part of the AVexclusive argument, but it WAS a part of EVERY Bible printed in that era.

    More for historical insights than for religious doctrine, praise God!

    But the dropping of it (early) by the Geneva is commendable to our 21st Century mindset. It MUST HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE back then, or they would not have excluded it, eh??
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, Nov 26, 2004
  7. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    John Lewis listed the translators of the Geneva Bible as "Miles Coverdale, Christopher Goodman, Anthony Gilby, William Whittingham, Thomas Sampson, and William Cole, and noted that some add John Knox, John Bodleigh, and John Pullain to that list (COMPLETE HISTORY, p. 206). THE DICTIONARY OF NATIONAL BIOGRAPHY claimed that William Kethe (?-1608) "acted as one of the translators of the Geneva Bible" (Vol. XI, p. 74).
    This same reference work noted that Cole joined with Coverdale, Whittingham, Gilby, Sampson, and others in producing the Geneva Bible" (IV, p. 731). Olga Opfell enumerated its translators as Whittingham, Gilby, Sampson, and "possibly William Kethe, William Cole, John Baron, and William Williams" (KJV TRANSLATORS, p. 22). There is no official list that presents all the men that may have been involved in translating the Geneva Bible.
     
    #7 Logos1560, Nov 27, 2004
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    And that is a shame. These men did yeomen work and deserve our praise (as the translators of the AV and other good English versions).
     
    #8 Dr. Bob, Nov 27, 2004
  9. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    John Knox and Christopher Goodman were chosen or elected as the pastors of the congregation of English exiles at Geneva. After Knox returned to Scotland, William Whittingham became pastor or one of the pastors of this English congregation in Geneva in 1559. Thus, the Geneva Bible seems to have been the work of the members of a local congregation in cooperation with its pastors.

    Charles Butterworth observed: "The Geneva Bible is above all anxious to be accurate; it is clean-cut, hones, and straightforward; it is both scholarly and pious" (LITERARY LINEAGE OF THE KING JAMES BIBLE, p. 236). Benson Bobrick maintained that the Geneva Bible "paid meticulous attention to the Greek and Hebrew originals" (WIDE AS THE WATERS, p. 175).
     
    #9 Logos1560, Nov 28, 2004
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I've heard(unverified) John Foxe, of Foxe's Book of martyrs fame, was a contributor, although not a translator. His contributions are said to have made the translators' choices easier as to choosing from among several possible renderings of certain Hebrew or Greek words/phrases. Also, it's said Foxe, Knox, & Calvin had contributed to the footnotes.

    I cannot find any source right now to verify the above. If anyone has such a source, please list it/them.
     
    #10 robycop3, Nov 29, 2004
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