Regenerated/saved "through faith"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, May 5, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    What is the CONTEXTUAL meaning and usage of the term "saved" in the above verse?

    1. Ask what the primary theme is in this context?

    ANSWER: - Divine quickening - vv. 1, 5,

    2. Ask what is the first use of the phrase "by grace are ye saved" in this context?

    ANSWER: verse 5 as a description of divine quickening

    3. Ask who is attributed this work and who is not in this context?

    ANSWER: It is not attributed to men - "and that not of yourselves"

    ANSWER: It is not attributed to works - "not of works"

    ANSWER: It is attributed to God's creative work - "For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus"

    ANSWER: It is not attributed to "good works" but "good works" are the consequence of being "saved through faith."


    4. Now, how does the grammar affect the relationship between divine quickening/saved or God's creative act and faith?

    ANSWER: Paul uses a paraphrastic perfect tense. εστε ("are") σεσωσμενοι ("saved")That is, he grammatically joins together a perfect tense participle and a present tense linking verb. The perfect participle states that the act of "saved" is a completed action that stands completed from its initial occurrence right up to the point when Paul penned these words. In other words, when the Ephesians had been regenerated by God that act of regeneration was at that point a completed act that stood completed right up to the time Paul penned these words.

    At the point it was completed it was completed "THROUGH FAITH." If I have been saved "though you" then my salvation cannot be separated from "you." If I had been saved from a flood "through an ark" then my salvation could not be separated from the ark. The perfect tense demands it is a completed action in the past and that completed action was accomplished "through faith" as a creative act of God. It is not a question of which comes first but the fact they are inseparable within that completed action.

    Neither regeneration or justifying faith are incomplete linear on going progressive actions but completed actions that stand complete due to GRACE not due to "yourselves" or due to "works" or "good works" but due to God's workmanship.
     
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    This is utter blasphemy. The Elect are Regenerated through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead ! 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Douay-Rheims Bible

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


    The word by as in:

    by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

    it is the prep dia and means:

    through, on account of, because of

    So the verse could very well read 1 Pet 1:3

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    or

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, on account of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    And from this comes comes the Lively Hope or Faith. The word Hope here means:

    hope, expectation, trust, confidence.

    The KJV Translates Heb 10:23

    Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised )

    That word Faith is the same word hope in 1 Pet 1:3, so Faith is through or because of the Resurrection of Christ as being regenerated was !

    The Elect are caused to be born again by the Spirit because of Christ's Resurrection from the Dead.

    You sir are in apostasy with your views. The only way Regeneration or being saved can be through Faith, if it faith has reference to Christ's Faithfulness in accomplishing His Saving Work of the Cross !
     
  3. mandym

    mandym
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    Regenerated, saved are used interchangeably. Anything else is blasphemy and I Peter does not show otherwise.
     
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Yes they are, thats because the New Birth or Regeneration does experimentally save one Titus 3:5

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;

    This is done by the Resurrection of Christ 1 Pet 1:3

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Thats when one is given Faith or Hope !

    So now what you have to say ?
     
  5. mandym

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    Nothing to say, you have not said anything substantial to respond too.
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    You can't say anything. Everything I have shown is sound !
     
  7. mandym

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    Yea, I know.:BangHead:
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    Yeah, Yeah, Yeah !
     
  9. percho

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    From Galatians 3:23 we were kept under the law, 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster unto Christ, 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,

    Therefore sin which brings death, had dominion over one because one was under the law, the schoolmaster unto Christ.

    Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Death that was brought on him by our sin being laid on him.
    Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    Question???

    What was the grace that released one from being under the law that mirrored the sin that brought the death?

    Is the answer not, The resurrection from the dead of Jesus Christ?


    For by grace are ye saved through the faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

    If Grace was the resurrection; What was the Faith?



    Gal 3:22-25 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before the faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that the faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    Why? V27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. We are under Grace. The resurrected Jesus Christ.



    BTW Titus 3:5-7 says the very same thing as the above.
     
  10. billwald

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    Exactly why did you write post#1

    What was your intent? Did you want appreciative "AMENs?" Did you want to stir the pot and irritate people? Did you want to demonstrate your teaching skills?
     
  11. Winman

    Winman
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    You are correct that being saved is a one time event. Where you err is that the scriptures shows faith precedes regeneration.

    1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    Men are enabled to believe by hearing the preaching of the word of God (Rom 10:17). The scriptures do not say you have to be regenerated to believe, they say you need to hear.

    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    Does Paul ask how a person can believe unless he has been regenerated here? No, and he never says that anywhere in scripture, you cannot show it. He simply asks how is it possible for a person to believe in Jesus if they have not HEARD of him. This is perfectly logical, you cannot possibly believe what you do not know.

    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Does Paul say faith comes by being regenerated here? No, he says it comes by hearing the word of God.

    Now back to 1 Cor 1:21, this verse says it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    God saves those who believe. Believing is the cause, being saved is the effect.

    You cannot find one verse of scripture that says a person is saved to believe. You cannot find one verse of scripture that says a person must have life to believe. Scripture always says you must believe to be saved, you must believe to have life.

    Faith precedes regeneration, faith precedes being saved.
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    To say one is regenerated through Faith is False Teaching, neither does Eph 2:8-9 Teach that.

    Mans Faith has absolutely nothing to do with New Birth, it is totally and Sovereignly a work of The Spirit of God ! Jn 3:8

    The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    Thats perverting scripture. Men are enabled to hear the word by being given ears to hear by New Birth.
     
  14. Winman

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    Tell me, how long after you were regenerated was it before you heard the gospel and believed it?
     
  15. savedbymercy

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    This is not about me, deal with the Truth. How is an spiritually dead and deaf man going to hear the word of the Lord ? Jesus said this Jn 8:47

    He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


    If one is not of God, Jesus says you hear them not. Jesus is speaking about hearing spiritually, for even those He spoke these words to heard Him with their Natural Ear !
     
  16. Winman

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    It is about you. If your view is true, then one moment you were unable to hear and believe the gospel, and the next moment you were able. When did this happen to you?

    Why are you afraid to tell how and when you were regenerated? I am not afraid to tell you how I was saved. I was saved when I was around 10 or 11 years old (don't remember exact date) when a neighbor took me to church. I heard a good sermon on sin that greatly convicted me. I also heard how Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead. Now, I had known and believed that for years, but I did not understand I had to trust Jesus to be saved. At the end of the service the pastor invited anyone who wanted to learn how their sins could be forgiven to come down. I went down and I was shown through the scriptures that all men are sinners, that the wages of sin is death, that Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead, and that if I believe on Jesus I would be saved. I prayed and asked Jesus to forgive my sins and save me. That is the day I was born again, and the greatest day of my life.

    I am not afraid to tell you how I was saved, why are you so afraid?

    When did you believe on Jesus? Have you believed on Jesus?
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    No one that has posted thus far, has even attempted to deal with the evidence I presented and/or attempted to show how I have distorted or abused the text, context, grammar, etc.

    SBM has done the usual cultic MO and RAN, jumped and pitted scripture against scripture - this is hermeneutics of all heretics and it characterizes every response he has to any exegetical based evidence presented against his position.
     
  18. savedbymercy

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    You are twisting and distorting scripture so bad, its a shame before God !
     
  19. Winman

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    I responded to you with 1 Corinthians 1:21;

    1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    Here is the relationship between faith and being saved. God has been pleased by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.

    You must first believe the word of God before God saves you.

    We are saved by God's grace, but it is through faith when we believe God's word. If you do not believe the preaching of God's word he will not save you.

    Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. It is impossible to be spiritually alive until you first believe.
     
    #19 Winman, May 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2012
  20. Winman

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    No man can be regenerated until his sins are forgiven, and no one's sins are forgiven until they believe, we are justified by faith.

    You can't be spiritually alive and spiritually dead at the same time. You can't be regenerated and walk around for days or years (or even seconds) still dead in your sins.

    Regeneration is instant, but faith is not. It takes time to hear the gospel, understand it, and believe it. Even if it took only a few minutes for you to hear the gospel, understand it, and believe it, it is impossible for you to be spiritually alive until you believe and your sins are removed.

    A person does not have to be made alive to hear the word of God.

    Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    Jesus didn't say the living shall hear his voice, he said THE DEAD shall hear his voice, and those that hear shall live.

    You must hear and believe God's word before you are made spiritually alive.
     

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