Regeneration: Begotten By God

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jan 7, 2010.

  1. OldRegular

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    Those on this Forum who hold the doctrine of Freewillism which would presumably include Pelagians, sem-Pelagians, Arminians, and perhaps assorted others insist that they are the final arbiters of their salvation. Those who hold to the doctrine of the Sovereignty of GOD in salvation, called Calvinism by some, insist otherwise that GOD is the final arbiter of the salvation of HIS Chosen Ones.

    In a recent OP I questioned whether those who hold the doctrine of Freewillism could definitively prove that their salvation was of their own free will or actually a super natural act of GOD which they failed to recognize. The OP elicited angry rebuttal from some and polite denial by others.

    Consider what Scripture says about Regeneration, the theological term used fot the “New Birth”. We look at the following account of the meeting of the man, Nicodemus, with our Saviour, Jesus Christ, recorded only in the Gospel of the Apostle John.

    John 3:1-12, KJV
    1. There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
    2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
    3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
    5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
    9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
    10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
    11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
    12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?


    I present the Scripture record of the entire encounter but will consider only four verses, 3, 5, 6, and 8.

    In Verse 3 Jesus Christ tells Nicodemus that one must be born again or “begotten from above” [Thayer's] to enter the Kingdom of GOD.

    In Verse 5 Jesus Christ tells Nicodemus that Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Many will argue about what is meant by born of water means but it seems to me that Jesus Christ answers that in Verse 6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

    In Verse 6 Jesus Christ also tells Nicodemus that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. He then goes on to say in Verse 8: Nicodemus you really don’t understand what happens when you are born of the Spirit.

    Now those who hold the doctrine of Freewillism insist that the exercise of faith is required for regeneration or to be “begotten from above”. However, if one exercises faith to be “begotten from above” would he not know it.? Jesus Christ states otherwise.

    To understand further consider the teaching of our Saviour through the Apostle John in the introduction to his Gospel:

    John 1:11-13, KJV
    11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


    In Verse 13 we learn who received the the power to become the sons of GOD: Those who were born or begotten of GOD.

    In this passage Jesus Christ tells us:

    1. They were born not of blood; that is it is not inherited.

    2. They were born not of the will of the flesh; that is not by the will of the unregenerate man, because the natural or unregenerate man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him. [1 Corinthians 2:14]

    3. They were born not of the will of any man. That is any other man whether he was regenerate or not.

    4. They were born of GOD. That is all those who are born again, “begotten from above” are born solely through the act of GOD and certainly solely by the Grace of GOD. They are then given the gift of Faith through which the Gospel Call becomes the Effectual Call.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    False...................
     
  3. OldRegular

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    Am I mistaken in understanding that you believe that a person through his/her free will can accept or reject the offer of Salvation?
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    What you are mistaken about is that one who hold to free will thinks they are the final arbiter of salvation.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    If one has the option to accept or reject the gracious offer of Salvation by GOD then he is the final arbiter! That being said that is not the point of the OP which is:

    They were born of GOD. That is all those who are born again, “begotten from above” are born solely through the act of GOD and certainly solely by the Grace of GOD. They are then given the gift of Faith through which the Gospel Call becomes the Effectual Call.
     
  6. webdog

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    More than false, it's a downright lie. OR needs to repent of this ASAP
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Again that is wrong he is not the final arbiter. God is the only arbiter as He is the sole person who has the power and authority to give salvation. That he requires a response from us is His decision not ours.
     
  8. webdog

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    Maybe in the book of Opinions, but nothing else. I would think you would understand this by now :BangHead:
     
  9. OldRegular

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    Getting back to the OP:

    They were born of GOD. That is all those who are born again, “begotten from above” are born solely through the act of GOD and certainly solely by the Grace of GOD. They are then given the gift of Faith through which the Gospel Call becomes the Effectual Call.
     
  10. webdog

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    What is your point? Your first sentence is true. The second is purely man's twisting and philosophy needed to make your doctrine work. Man passes from death to life in order to have faith? That is pure nonsense as they passed from death to life WITHOUT faith. That is false doctrine.
     
  11. LaymansTermsPlease

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    To me it looks rather instead we learn "what type of children" they have become once they become sons of God...we don't learn "who" received the power to become.

    It clearly says simply that those who believed received the power.

    Plenty of other verses for your purposes, but this set of 3 looks like a English translation KJV sentence order type issue...what is describing what.

    You say in 13 we learn who receive the power, but rather a modern english translation makes is clearer that verse 13 tells what kind of children they are.

    It makes it clear that they are God's spiritual children, not physical, once they have believed and are given this right by God.

    So again, it looks like a description of the kind of children they have become, NOT anything about what state they were in BEFORE they believed.

    13 is description of children after second birth..not a description of their state after first birth before they believed.
     
  12. OldRegular

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    1. It is God the Father who foreknew and chose His people before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4].

    2. It is God the Father who predestinated that His people would be conformed to the image of His Son that they might be adopted as His children [Ephesians 1: 5] and become heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ [Romans 8: 16, 17].

    3. It is God the Son who humbles Himself, take upon Himself the form of man, Jesus Christ, and sheds His blood on a Roman cross to pay the penalty for the sins of those whom the Father has chosen to salvation [John 17; Philippians 2:6-10].

    4. It is God the Holy Spirit, who applies the work of the Jesus Christ to those chosen by God unto salvation so that none are lost [John 6: 37, 39, 40, 44].

    5. It is God the Holy Spirit, who gives the gift of Faith to those He has regenerated so that the Gospel Call becomes the Effectual Call. [Ephesians 2:1-8]

    6. It is the Triune God who, in time, will regenerate, call, justify, and glorify those whom He chose to Salvation before the foundation of the world, therefore, they can never fall away or lose that Salvation [Romans 8:28-30].
     
  13. OldRegular

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    Verse 13 is a statement of who is responsible for the second birth, GOD alone.
     
  14. psalms109:31

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    Arbitrator

    God is the final arbiter because it is His word that He will save those who believe in His Son. We are not saved by our word, but by His. We are born again from above when we receive the Holy Spirit. This rebirth is done solely by God it is Him who gives it, it surely didn't come from us.
     
    #14 psalms109:31, Jan 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2010
  15. kyredneck

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    Note the threefold denial of any human involvement in this supernatural act. Jamieson, Fausset, & Brown on Jn 1:13 [emphasis mine]:

     
  16. LaymansTermsPlease

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    Verse 13 is a statement of what kind of children they have become...not what kind of people believed.

     
  17. DHK

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    That's good OR. Nobody's arguing against God's omniscience.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    Remember, "foreknew" has NOTHING TO DO WITH OMNISCIENCE. That would be "fore-saw".

    Pelagiantypes here try to make them the same. Two totally different words and definitions. They try to say "God is omnisicent and so knew ahead who would be good, do good, believe, repent" (as if unregenerate man could do ANY such righteous deed). While man is not as bad as he could be, he still is 100% incapable of doing an iota of good (in God's eyes; not mine).

    To "know" is an old way of talking about intimate relationship. As in "Adam knew Eve (hello, Eve) and she bare a son".

    Before the world was founded, God put His chosen few in an intimate relationship with Himself. Of course the whole plan of salvation unfolds from that unconditional choice of grace. The Son died. The Father justified. The Spirit regenerated. The whole Godhead keeps.

    Regeneration is the act of God's grace alone. He does it to my sin-dead heart, giving me a new nature. Born again by His Spirit, not by any words I spout or so-called "righteousness" I think I might have.
     
  19. OldRegular

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    Short, sweet, to the point, and best of all so very true. Thanks Dr. Bob!:godisgood:
     
    #19 OldRegular, Jan 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2010
  20. psalms109:31

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    Word of power

    The word of Jesus is Spirit and life, through those words man can do exactly what God ask Him to do believe and be saved or not and be condemned. Through the words of Jesus that we are messengers of they have what you think they are missing.

    Jesus word is more powerful than you can even imagine, and through Him and His word is more powerful than the human nature.

    I have no problem with who has called and it is Christ body that all believers become when they believe. So Paul can easy say to believers that they have been chosen before the foundation of the world not because of nothing but being in the body. God called us in Christ not apart from Him. It was Jesus that was chosen before the foundation of the world and we who believe make up the body period. God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and Paul wasn't lying about it, nor is Jesus that whosever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. When you are in the body of Christ you are the elect of God no matter what men may believe.
     

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