Regeneration

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    If, in regeneration, there were no change to the soul (inner man) of the elect, absent would be any evidences of grace in one's life: no manifestation of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22), no conflict between the two natures of the one born again (Paul in Rom. 7), no evidences of a change in Paul's life (Acts 9), no evidence of a change in the Penitent Thief on the cross (Luke 23:40-42), no opening of Lydia's heart (Acts 16:14), no preparations of the heart in man and no answer of the tongue (Prov. 16:1), no bearing of good fruit (Mt. 7:17), no manifesting of one to another's conscience (2ndCor. 5:11), no convicting of one's conscience (Jno. 8:9), no living in all good conscience (Acts 23:1), no exercising of Paul to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men (Acts 24:16), no showing of the work of the law written in the mind or heart, no conscience also bearing witness, and no thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another (Rom. 2:14-15), no conscience to bear witness in the Holy Ghost (Rom. 9:1), no subjecting of one's self for conscience sake (Rom. 13:5), no rejoicing in the testimony of our conscience (2ndCor. 1:12), no pure heart and good conscience (1st Tim. 1:5 & 19), no holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience (1st Tim. 3:9), no serving with a pure conscience (2nd Tim. 1:3), no purging of one's conscience from dead works to serve the living God (Heb. 9:14).

    If there were no change received in regeneration, then when the worshippers are once purged, they would still be conscious of their sins. However, Hebrews 10:2 says, "When once purged, there should be no more conscience of sins." If there is no change in regeneration, "what" is "purged"? Without a change, nothing would be purged. The truth is that the essence of the soul is purged. The product of this purging is a change. The Holy Spirit needs no purging. If there were no change in the quickening of the inner man, one would not have a true heart with which to draw near in full assurance of faith and their hearts would not be sprinkled from an evil conscience (Heb.10:22). The Holy Spirit does not stand in need of "full assurance of faith". Why would the Holy Spirit need the answer of a good conscience toward God (1stPet 3:21). It is the good conscience of the translated inner man that needs this answer.

    It is the nature of the soul substance in the inner man that needs changing. The Holy Spirit that is implanted in the soul of the inner man does not need regenerating (re-genesis). The Holy Spirit (H.S.) does not need the new birth. The H.S. does not need translating. The H. S. does not need quickening. The H. S. does not need passing from death unto life. The H. S. does not need recreated. The H. S. was never created, it is eternal, without beginning or ending. The H. S. does not need Divine sanctification. The H. S. does not need to be born again. The H. S. does not need the application of the blood of the Lamb. It does not need to be sprinkled. It is the Holy Spirit that accomplishes this nature change in the spirit essence of the inner man of God's elect when they are translated into Divine Life. The soul substance of the inner man needs changing. In the new birth, this inner soul substance is regenerated, born again (from above), translated, saturated with the Holy Ghost, Divinely sanctified, set apart to a Holy use, quickened, has the blood of Christ applied, passes from death unto life, becomes a new creature (creation), receives the effectual calling, is made sinless and holy, becomes righteous. The inner-sanctum of this "soul essence" can no longer commit sin (1st John 3:9). Christ in you, The Hope of Glory, is seated on the throne of your soul. If the H. S. does not change one in regeneration, then the H. S. is ineffectual. There is a "resurrection" of the inner man in regeneration. The H. S. of God needs no resurrection. The inner man receives a change in regeneration, and the body will receive its change in the final resurrection.

    In times past, I once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience, among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved me, even when I was dead in sins, hath quickened me together with Christ, (by grace I am saved;) and hath raised me up, and made me sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:2-6). In my new birth, God wrought a tremendous change IN ME. In Psalms 40:2, He makes me realize that "He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings." He changed me. He gave me a new nature and set the direction of my compass points on a new course of life.

    For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Tit. 3:3-5). The H. S. in us does not need saving. There is a CHANGE wrought in salvation. I trust this washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost has wrought a massive change in me.

    This brief effort falls far short of "crusting the ground" of this inexhaustible subject. I pray this will be of some benefit to you.


    Love for the Truth's Sake,
    Bernard Gowens

    I agree with what this preacher has to say I and would like to have the comments of others on this topic... State your position
     
  2. Reformed

    Reformed
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    Well, according to a quick Google search, you are the preacher.
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Thanks for that brother but that is not the truth. I'm not the preacher. No matter what google says I wish I could relate doctrine like that but I assure it is not me.
     
  4. RLBosley

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    Maybe I'm a little slow on the uptake this evening, but I fail to see how you conclude from that link that the poster here is the author there. :confused:
     
  5. Van

    Van
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    The OP makes many assertions, and many of those are spot on! So lets review just a few from the Opening paragraph.

    1) If, in regeneration, there was no change.... Here we have a premise, regeneration results in a change in the inner man. This is true, and can be supported biblically. We are no longer by nature, children of wrath, no longer spiritually dead, we have been born anew as spiritual children of God which gives the right to become physical children of God at Christ's second coming. Regeneration means originated anew, thus a spiritually dead human spirit, separated from God because he/she was conceived in iniquity is made alive together with Christ. Thus we are regenerated when and only when, God puts us spiritually in Christ. Not in Christ = spiritually dead; In Christ = Spiritually alive, born anew, regenerated.

    2) The OP equates regeneration with the fruit of the Spirit. This misses the mark. After we are put in Christ, and regenerated, having undergone the Circumcision of Christ where our sin burden is removed, then and only then are we sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit. So the biblical view is the fruit of the Spirit is the result of (a) having been changed by regeneration, and (b) having been indwelt with our Helper.

    3) The next point is bogus and Calvinist screed. Romans chapter 7 presents the struggles Paul experienced before, repeat before, he was set free from this wretched condition.

    4) Ditto (i.e. Calvinist screed) for the claim "regeneration" occurs in individuals before God credits their faith as righteousness and puts them in Christ.
     
  6. JamesL

    JamesL
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    I wonder why people can't simply speak in plain language. Everything is clouded in mystical talk and ambiguity.

    This is akin to the liberal politicians promising "change" without spelling out what IS the change.

    Everyone wants to talk about the byproducts of the change, without detailing the substance of it. This "sermon" is just as ambiguous as an Obama speech.
     
  7. InTheLight

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    Was thinking the same thing. Also, there are hundreds of words there very little substance. No meat, no pointed statements of fact, no focus, no brevity of sentences, no coherent progression, no conversational tone, no delineation of Bible verses from human prose...

    I hope you "no" what I'm trying to say.

    Theologically, there isn't much to complain about. Author is obviously a Calvinist, but to his credit, masks it well.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    How can you deduce that by what was given?
     
  9. Van

    Van
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    How can you NOT deduce masked Calvinist doctrine by what was given?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    If it was a sound and valid teaching from the scriptures in regards to salvation, how could it not be calvinistic though?
     
  11. Van

    Van
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    If it was a sound and valid teaching from scripture in regards to salvation, how could it be Calvinistic? If scripture says "from" Calvinists say "before."
    If scripture says chosen through faith in the truth, Calvinism says chosen NOT through faith in the truth. If scripture says chosen rich in faith, Calvinism says chosen TO BE rich in faith. On and on, rewrite after rewrite, Calvinism is unsound and invalid view of salvation.
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    I see this brother has a son, Michael, who at the time this profile was written lived in Texas. One of our elders at Lexington when we were members there was Elder Michael Gowens; probably not the same, but curious how they may be related.

    I agree. The 'imagination change' that comes from 'the work of the law written in the heart' results in the inclination to 'do by nature the things of the law'. IMO, at it's most basic level this is manifested by an inherent desire to 'do no ill' to one's fellow man, as laid out in Ro 13:8-10, Mt 19:18-19, and other places.
     
    #12 kyredneck, Aug 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2014
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Are you saying that those holding to calvinism then are teaching a false Gospel?
     
  14. convicted1

    convicted1
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    Van says a lot of things. Sadly, most of it is waist deep errors we have to wade through.....
     
  15. Winman

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    For the most part, Van is right on.

    Regeneration literally means to be made "alive again", exactly what Jesus said of the prodigal son when he repented in Luke chapter 15.

    Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

    Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

    You could substitute the word "regenerated" in both these verses and it would be absolutely accurate, when the prodigal's father forgave his sins he was made "alive again".

    Of course, this scripture utterly refutes Original Sin. The prodigal son was not born dead in sin as OS falsely teaches. The sheep in Luke 15 was not originally lost, but in the shepherd's flock. The woman originally had ten pieces of silver, none were originally lost.

    Jesus knows proper doctrine, and these parables show that men are not born dead in sin, but upright as Ecc 7:29 says. But all men like sheep go astray and are joined to a citizen of that far country (the devil) as the prodigal son was. This is when men become "dead in sin" and become "children of wrath".

    But when any man repents, he is then RETURNED to the Shepherd of his soul, Jesus Christ. He is regenerated or made spiritually alive again.

    1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

    The scriptures are absolutely clear to the honest heart.
     
    #15 Winman, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2014
  16. Van

    Van
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    Are you saying that those holding non-Calvinistic views are teaching a false Gospel?

    Shuck and then jive, make one slanderous charge after another, then present even more disinformation.

    Calvinism teaches unbiblical and mistaken doctrine, as demonstrated by scripture.

    1) Unregenerate men were "entering heaven" thus demonstrating total spiritual inability is mistaken doctrine. (Matthew 23:13)

    2) People are chosen through faith in the truth, thus demonstrating unconditional election is mistaken doctrine. (2 Thessalonians 2:13)

    3) Christ died as a ransom for all, thus demonstrating limited atonement is mistaken doctrine. (1 Timothy 2:6)

    4) People were blocked as they were entering heaven, demonstrating irresistible grace is mistaken doctrine. (Matthew 23:13)
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Matthew 23:13 does NOT mean what you kept saying that it does, and again, if jesus death was for all sinners, and he paid their sin debt in full, and by you, God desires all to get saved, why not have all saved?
     
  18. Van

    Van
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    Matthew 23:13 says unregenerate men were entering heaven, yet we blocked by false teachers. You deny it means what it says.

    Calvinism must deny verse after verse after verse because it is unbiblical.

    Next note the disinformation asserted by the Calvinist, that Jesus death removed the sin burden from all men, rather than providing the propitiation or means of salvation for all men. Only those whose faith God credits as righteousness are baptized into Christ, where they undergo the Circumcision of Christ, and have their sin burden removed.

    Calvinism is defended by misrepresenting the views of non-Calvinists, rather than addressing the scriptures that teach Calvinism is based on mistaken understandings of scripture. All they say is "it does not mean" what it says. LOL
     

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