Required Setting for Day of the Lord

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mel Miller, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller
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    Friends,

    What is the required Setting for the Day of the Lord?

    That Day will come like a “thief in the night” … the essential requirement.
    Jesus urges the “watch” for His coming as a thief when armies gather to Armageddon. Rev.16:15-16. That Day of Wrath (I Thess.5:9) will not
    “overtake believers as a thief” Paul writes. I Thess.5:2-5.

    Since Jesus comes as a thief when armies are gathered to Armageddon, and He has instructed those who “know the end is near” to watch and be ready “in the days after the great tribulation”, the only ones surprised will be unbelievers.
    Matt.24:33,36; Mark 13:24; Luke 21:36.

    Why did Jesus say “no one can know the HOUR of His coming and Presence” while believers watch with expectation and the armies gather to Armageddon?

    The answer is that 100 verses in Revelation begin to be fulfilled as soon as THE SIGN of the Day of God’s wrath brings darkness to the earth and redness to a full moon. Rev.6:12. The 100 verses can’t occur until armies gather to Armageddon. The HOUR of Trial "coming on all mankind on all the face of all the earth", Jesus said, will happen “suddenly as a snare”. Luke 21:34-35.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey:
     
  2. KenH

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    Jesus can return and put an end to this present universe any day now. It's been that way for almost 2000 years.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Amen, Brother KenH -- Preach it! :thumbs:

    God does not have to wait 3½-days for the two witnesses to rot.
    God does not have to wait 3½-years for His wrath to be spread
    around. God the Father can send Jesus to collect His saints
    and take them to heaven anytime He wants - the Lord has to
    wait for NOTHING.

    BTW, When Jesus comes to defeat the Antichrist and set
    up the physical Millinnial Messanic Kingdom, the time is known:

    1. The Second Advent will be 7-years (2520 days) from the peace treaty for Yisrial (Dan 9:27)

    COVENENT from Strong's, 'peace treaty' from Ed:

    H1285
    בּרית
    berîyth
    ber-eeth'
    From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact
    (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):
    - confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.


    2. The Second Advent will be 3½-years from the AOD = abomination of desolation, the AOD of the Temple in Jerusalem by Antichrist (Dan 9:27,
    Matthew 24:15)
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    I don't have a search engine that will find all occurances
    in the KJV1769 Edition of:

    day of the Lord
    day of Christ
    day of Judgement
    day of God

    so it will be hard for me to do a complete word studyon those
    phrases ... never mind, a nearby topic has a link to:]

    http://www.biblegateway.com/

    where i can find such things. It will take nearly line-by-line
    editing and a long time.

    I will Assume that 'day of the Lord' has multiple meanings.
    Others may do the say thing and show that there
    is one and only one 'day of the Lord' ;)

    ----------------------------------------------
    I will show IT IS WRITTEN:
    The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
    the Tribulation period.
    The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
    The rapture/resurrection will occur without
    previous notice and before the Tribulation period
    (wrath).
    The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
    is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
    (time of the Anti-messiah)

    The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
    the Tribulation period. FOR IT IS WRITTEN
    in Daniel 9:26-27 (nKJV):

    "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah
    shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
    And the people of the prince who is to
    come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
    The end of it shall be with a flood,
    And till the end of the war desolations
    are determined.
    27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with
    many for one week; But in the middle
    of the week He shall bring an end
    to sacrifice and offering. And on
    the wing of abominations shall be
    one who makes desolate, Even until
    the consummation, which is determined,
    Is poured out on the desolate."

    Please note the lower case "h" in "he" in verse 27
    refering not to Messiah in verse 26 but the
    to the lower case 'p' "prince that shall come".
    Note it is written that the Anti-messiah's seven years
    are divided in the middle by the abomination
    of desolation, dividing the 7-year period into
    to parts each 3½-years long (1260 days, 42 months).

    The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection,
    FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 1 Thessalonains 4:13-18 (KJV1873):

    But I would not have you to be ignorant,
    brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
    that ye sorrow not, even as others which have
    no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose
    again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus
    will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of
    the Lord, that we which are alive and remain
    unto the coming of the Lord shall
    not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from
    heaven with a shout, with the voice
    of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
    and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain
    shall be caught up together with them
    in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
    and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    The rapture/resurrection will occur without
    previous notice and before the Tribulation period
    (wrath) FOR IT IS WRITTEN in
    1 Thessalonains 5:1-10 (KJV1873):

    1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren,
    ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that
    the day of the Lord so cometh as
    a thief in the night.
    3 For when they shall say,
    Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
    cometh upon them, as travail upon
    a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness,
    that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light,
    and the children of the day: we are
    not of the night, nor of darkness.
    6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;
    but let us watch and be sober.
    7 For they that sleep sleep in the night;
    and they that be drunken are drunken
    in the night.
    8 But let us, who are of the day,
    be sober, putting on the breastplate
    of faith and love; and for an helmet,
    the hope of salvation.
    9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
    but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
    10 Who died for us, that, whether
    we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
    11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together,
    and edify one another, even as also ye do.

    The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
    is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
    (time of the Anti-messiah)
    FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV1873):

    Now we beseech you, brethren,
    by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    and by our gathering together unto him,
    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind,
    or be troubled, neither by spirit,
    nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
    as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means:
    for that day shall not come, except
    there come a falling away first,
    and that man of sin be revealed,
    the son of perdition;

    I have shown IT IS WRITTEN:
    The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
    the Tribulation period.
    The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
    The rapture/resurrection will occur without
    previous notice and before the Tribulation period
    (wrath).
    The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
    is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
    (time of the Anti-messiah)
    -------------------------------------------
     
    #4 Ed Edwards, Jul 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2006
  5. Mel Miller

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    Required Setting

    Ed Edwards,

    It's not necessary to find evidence that the Day of the Lord COULD include the great tribulation. That's the wrong question and you have
    spent a lot of time in your latest post for nothing that is pertinent!

    "What is the required setting for the Day of the Lord" concerns when Jesus will "come as a thief" to destroy His enemies at Armageddon.

    Your Quote:
    _____________________________________________________________
    I will Assume that 'day of the Lord' has multiple meanings. Others may do the say thing and show that there is one and only one 'day of the Lord' ;)
    _____________________________________________________________

    That is finally good feedback. In this case the Day of the Lord is called "The DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY" to which Jesus refers in Rev.16:15-16 and it is the "one and only day of the Lord" that is required before He can fulfill Rev.11:18 that "God's wrath has come and also the appointed time" for three things:

    1. "To judge the dead" and that requires the resurrection.
    2. "To reward the saints" and that requires the rapture.
    3. "To destroy the destroyers of earth" to execute God's wrath.

    Again, your Quote:
    ____________________________________________________________
    God the Father can send Jesus to collect His saints and take them to heaven anytime He wants - the Lord has to wait for NOTHING.
    ____________________________________________________________

    That is patently false since "the armies will be gathered to Armageddon"
    before Jesus comes "as a thief" and until which we are to "watch and
    keep our clothes on" to show we are not only ready but worthy to be "kept from the hour of trial". Rev.3:10-11; Luke 21:34-35.

    Of course, we are all worthy in Christ; but Jesus requires that we be
    willing to "die for Him" lest He be "ashamed of us" at His presence !!
    Mark 8:38; 9:1; I Thess.3:13.
    Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey:
     
  6. Ed Edwards

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    Right pew

    Mel Miller: // "What is the required setting for the Day of the Lord"
    concerns when Jesus will "come as a thief" to destroy
    His enemies at Armageddon.//

    Ah, then I can't help you.
    You need to prove from scripture that there is a time
    //when Jesus will "come as a thief" to destroy
    His enemies at Armageddon//

    Jesus will come as a thief to GET HIS OWN in the
    Pretribualtion rapture (at the beginning of the DAY OF THE LORD).
    Jesus will NOT //"come as a thief" to destroy
    His enemies at Armageddon//

    Maybe if you replace 'thief' with it's cousin 'terrorist'
    it is easier to see. The terrorist sneaks up on you when you
    are unaware. Contrast to a military organization that needs
    no secrecy to proceede. When Jesus comes to destroy
    His enemies at Armageddon he will be accompanied by
    several BILLION horsemen (Rev 19:14). If a few horsemen make
    a lot of racket - think think of the racket
    that Billions of horses will make! No, Jesus doesn't need
    to sneak up on the forces gathered at Har-mageddo.

    (BTW, Armageddon is a shortening of Har-Mageddo or in
    English 'mount of Mageddo' but Mageddo is a valley
    that runs from Mount Carmel southeast to the Jorden river.
    What is this 'har-mageddo'?)


    Ed Edwards: //God the Father can send Jesus to collect His saints
    and take them to heaven anytime He wants - the Lord
    has to wait for NOTHING.//

    Mel Miller: //That is patently false since "the armies
    will be gathered to Armageddon"
    before Jesus comes "as a thief" and until which we are to "watch and
    keep our clothes on" to show we are not only ready
    but worthy to be "kept from
    the hour of trial". Rev.3:10-11; Luke 21:34-35.//

    Unfortunately, you have made a wrong assumption about
    the time //when Jesus will "come as a thief" to destroy
    His enemies at Armageddon//. These scriptures talk about
    Jesus comming as a thief but do not speak of Armageddon.

    Outline of Revelation:
    1. Rev 1-3 - the continuing church age
    2. Rev 4:1 (By type) - the pretribulation rapture
    3. Rev 4:2-19:10 - the Tribulation period on earth
    4. Rev 19:11-19:21 - the Glorious Second Coming of Messiah Jesus
    5. Rev 20:1-20:6 - the Millinnial Messanic Age
    6. Rev 20:7-20:15 - the Great White Throne Judgment
    7. Rev 21-22 - The New Heaven and New Earth

    So Rev 3:10-11 takes place in the continuing chruch age.
    In fact, Rev 3:10-11 is a pretribulation proof text - tee hee!
    Rev. 3:10-11 has no reference to the collected armies
    at Har-Meggido, not even a hint

    Rev 3:10-11 (KJV1769 Edition) The pretrib clues are bolded:

    Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will
    keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon
    all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
    .
    11. Behold, I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that
    no man take thy crown.

    The emminent return of Christ for the Church Age elect saints
    is always a pretrib clue. Here "the HOUR of temption" that
    comes on the WHOLE WORLD (not just the Jews) is the 7 years
    of the 70th WEEK of Daniel, the 'DAY of the Lord',
    the Tribulation PERIOD, etc.

    Luke 21:34-36 (part of the Mount Olivet Discourse /MOD/ of
    Jesus parallel to Matthew 24-25) is also a pretrib proof text
    - tee hee! Luke 21:34-36 has no reference to the collected armies
    at Har-Meggido; well maybe the 'snare' is a hint

    Luke 21:34-35 (KJV 1769 edition) Again, the pretrib
    rapture clues are bolded:

    34. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts
    be overcharged with sufeiting, and drunkenness, and cares
    of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares
    35. For as a snare shallit come on all them that dwell on
    the face of the whole earth.
    36. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be
    accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to
    pass
    , and to stand before the Son of man.

    accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to
    pass


    'Accounted' means that on the books you show 'worthy to escape'
    NOT that you are 'worthy to escape', but that you are
    (thru the grace of God & the Blood of Christ)
    recorded as though you are 'worthy to escape'. There are
    two ways to "escape all these things that shall come to pass"

    (1) die and your soul goes
    to heaven to await your glorified body in Christ at the
    pretribulation rapture
    2) the pretribulation rapture happens
    before you die.

    Mel Miller: //In this case the Day of the Lord
    is called "The DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY" to which
    Jesus refers in Rev.16:15-16 and it is the
    "one and only day of the Lord" ... //

    Ah, you can't handle the cheese of Revelation 16:15
    stuck between two pieces of bread: Rev 16:14 and
    Rev 16:16. Where is Jesus when he says Rev 16:15 (yes, it
    is RED in my HCSB)? He is in heaven,
    Rev 16:14 & 16 happen on earth.

    Personally I think Jesus is addressing His faithful
    Church Age elect saved church saints who were raptured into
    heaven before the Tribulation Period started. Jesus
    reminds them what he had said before which they believed.
    And then it comes to pass as the nations gather together
    for the final battle between Good and Evil.
    (Don't you think it strange that all those billions of
    chruch age elect saints riding white horses and not a one
    is ever mentioned, Jesus does all the zappin'!!!
     
  7. npetreley

    npetreley
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    This is incorrect. There are signs that precede the Day of the Lord, and Jesus even told us what they were and commanded us to look for them.

    Paul reprimanded the Thessalonians for believing the Day of the Lord had already come by reminding them that he already told them what had to happen first. The Thessalonians should have known that the Day of the Lord couldn't have come, because they didn't see these signs yet.
     
  8. Mel Miller

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    Required Setting

    npetreley,

    Thanks so much for reminding EE of the ENDTIME events that believers KNOW must occur before Christ comes to rescue us from the earth and thus avoid the "HOUR of Trial coming on all the face of all the earth".

    EE's consistent twisting of the truth finds him putting THESE POST-TRIB EVENTS *BEFORE* the 70th Seven of Daniel's great tribulation period INSTEAD of *AFTER*. Matt.24:29; Mark 13:24. Let's highlight his quote to show how he literally twists the truth:

    EE's Quote:
    ___________________________________________________________
    "So Rev 3:10-11 takes place in the continuing chruch age. In fact, Rev 3:10-11 is a pretribulation proof text - tee hee! Rev. 3:10-11 has no reference to the collected armies at Har-Meggido, not even a hint

    "Rev 3:10-11 (KJV1769 Edition) The pretrib clues are bolded:

    "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11. Behold, I come quickly; hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

    "The emminent return of Christ for the Church Age elect saints is always a pretrib clue. Here "the HOUR of temption" that comes on the WHOLE WORLD (not just the Jews) is the 7 years of the 70th WEEK of Daniel, the 'DAY of the Lord', the Tribulation PERIOD, etc.

    "Luke 21:34-36 (part of the Mount Olivet Discourse /MOD/ of Jesus parallel to Matthew 24-25) is also a pretrib proof text - tee hee! Luke 21:34-36 has no reference to the collected armies at Har-Meggido; well maybe the 'snare' is a hint"
    __________________________________________________________

    npetreley,

    You know the only signs Luke mentions are those that occur on the Day Christ comes, i.e., the signs in the sun, moon and stars. These signs, Jesus said, will cause "men's hearts to fail from fear". THEN THEY'LL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY." 21:25-27.

    Jesus continues: "THAT DAY will come upon you unawares ... as a snare"!

    The reason is clear as to why it is useless to debate EE. He insists this
    DAY is a "pretrib proof text"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    EE has a right to believe in a Pre-Trib DAY of the Lord. BUT he distorts
    the words of Jesus that point ONLY to a Post-Trib DAY of the Lord.

    He does admit, belatedly above: "TEE HE! Maybe the `snare' is a hint" that Jesus is indeed talking about the armies gathered to Armageddon.

    Yet his entire argument denies that Jesus will come "as a thief" when these armies are gathered to Armageddon according to Rev.16:15-16.

    Jesus identified the time for the "HOUR OF TRIAL coming on all the inhabitants on all the face of all the earth" as predicted in Rev.3:10-11.

    He identified this HOUR over sixty years prior to the writing of Revleation.
    He said "THEY WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING ... AND THAT THAT DAY WILL COME SUDDENLY, AS A SNARE on all the inhabitants
    that dwell on all the face of all the earth". Jesus repeats
    these very words to pinpoint the HOUR OF TRIAL coming on THAT DAY
    ... the DAY He is revealed to destroy the wicked and deliver the saints!
    Luke 17:27-30; Luke 21:27-30; Rev.3:10-11; Luke 21:31-35;
    2 Thess.1:7-10.

    It's impossible to exchange views with a person who uses POST-TRIB SIGNS to support a non-existent PRE-TRIB Rapture!!
    Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey:
     
    #8 Mel Miller, Jul 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2006
  9. npetreley

    npetreley
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    I agree. But then I have to ask you why you bother?

    He argues the same way that Dwight Pentacost argues in his book Things to Come. That's actually a compliment of sorts, because Things to Come is a popular college text. How it got to be such a popular college text is beyond me, other than the fact that it's a thick and heavy book. Perhaps colleges select their reading material by the pound these days. Regardless, I believed in pre-trib when I read that book. But Pentacost makes so many leaps of logic and twists so many texts to come to his pre-trib conclusion, that his book is one of the many reasons I began to have doubts in pre-trib!

    First of all, the question put to Jesus is (from Matthew 24): 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

    The fact that Jesus answers them at all tells you that we will see at least one sign of His coming and of the end of the Age. If the doctrine of imminence is true, then there would be no point in answering them. The answer would be "There are no signs of my coming, or the end of the age."

    Jesus gives many signs, however. It would be futile to give such signs as an answer unless we (the elect) will be around to see them. We cannot argue that Jesus is giving the signs for the benefit of the reprobate. Signs such as these are meaningless to the reprobate because they will refuse to acknowledge them. In fact, the very fact that these people will either be ignorant of the signs or refuse to acknowledge them is why Jesus surprises them like a thief. People who are walking in the light will not be surprised like a thief.

    Paul shows that there are multiple signs that precede the Day of the Lord.

    From Luke.

    I won't quote Matthew 24 because it would take a lot of text. But we can see from these passages and a few others that these things must precede the Day of the Lord and His return (not necessarily in sequential order):

    1. The falling away
    2. The man of sin is revealed.
    3. The great tribulation
    4. Sun goes dark, moon turns to the color of blood, stars fall from sky, heavens are rolled up like a scroll

    THEN Jesus comes in great glory.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    npetreley: //The fact that Jesus answers them at all tells you
    that we will see at least one sign of His coming
    and of the end of the Age.//

    This is not correct. There are two questions here.
    The sign of His coming in Power is the GREAT
    TRIBULATION PERIOD. No sign of the end
    of the age is given.

    npetreley: // If the doctrine of imminence is true, then there would
    be no point in answering them. The answer would be
    "There are no signs of my coming, or the end of the age."

    The doctrine of imminence is true. Since the day of
    Pentecost, 33AD (some say 30AD), Jesus could have come
    to get the church age elect saints at any time (imminence).
    Today also ilmminence is true and Jesus can come anytime
    the Father wants Him to come. Nothing is left to be
    done by anybody. There is no Tribulation Period before
    Jesus collects the church age elect saints - so the Second
    Advent of Jesus isn't 3½ or l7 years away.


    --------------------------------------

    In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
    ask three questions:

    (in the order asked):
    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    3. What is the sign of the end of age?

    Jesus answers these questions in
    Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
    some parables.

    Here are the answers of Jesus in the
    order the questions were asked:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-14

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:15-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    Here is a summary of the answers
    in the order in which events will occur:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Soon, it was in 70AD

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    No signs preceeding the end of the age

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    The Sign of His coming will be the
    Tribulation period.


    Recall the Greek language in which this
    Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
    did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
    So many ands, buts, and other connectors
    give the outline. 'Polysyndeton' is a retorical device that uses
    (in English) repeated connectors (usually 'and')
    instead of an outline. This is most noticable
    in the Bible in Genesis 1 and Matthew 24.
    I believe the major outline to be:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-14

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:15-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
    Rapture/resurrection which ends the
    current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
    last days, etc.)

    Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
    church age even up to this time.
    Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
    The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
    that the church age continues.
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    I think a better question would be: What is the Biblical understanding of the "Day of The Lord"?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Ed Edwards

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    Good point.
    Here is the writing I'm working on with minimal comments:

    -----------------------------------

    DAY OF CHRIST in KJV1769 Edition
    source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
    3 occurances

    Philippians 1:10
    That ye may approve things that are excellent;
    that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

    Philippians 2:16
    Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice
    in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain,
    neither laboured in vain.

    2 Thessalonians 2:2
    That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,
    neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
    as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Thessalonians 2 (Whole Chapter)

    DAY OF GOD in KJV1769 Edition
    source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
    2 occurances

    2 Peter 3:12
    Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
    wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved,
    and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    Revelation 16:14
    For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,
    which go forth unto the kings of the earth and
    of the whole world, to gather them to the battle
    of that great day of God Almighty.

    DAY OF JUDGMENT in KJV1769 Edition
    source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
    8 occurances

    Matthew 10:15
    Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land
    of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    Matthew 11:22
    But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable
    for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

    Matthew 11:24
    But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable
    for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

    Matthew 12:36
    But I say unto you, That every idle word that men
    shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

    Mark 6:11
    And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you,
    when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under
    your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you,
    It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha
    in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    2 Peter 2:9
    The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
    and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

    2 Peter 3:7
    But the heavens and the earth, which are now,
    by the same word are kept in store,
    reserved unto fire against the day of judgment
    and perdition of ungodly men.

    1 John 4:17
    Herein is our love made perfect,
    that we may have boldness in the day of judgment:
    because as he is, so are we in this world.

    DAY OF THE LORD in KJV1769 Edition
    source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
    23 occurances

    Isaiah 2:12
    For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one
    that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up;
    and he shall be brought low:


    Isaiah 13:6
    Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand;
    it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.


    Isaiah 13:9
    Behold, the day of the Lord cometh,
    cruel both with wrath and fierce anger,
    to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy
    the sinners thereof out of it.


    Jeremiah 46:10
    For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts,
    a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries:
    and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate
    and made drunk with their blood:
    for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice
    in the north country by the river Euphrates.


    Ezekiel 13:5
    Ye have not gone up into the gaps,
    neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel
    to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.



    Ezekiel 30:3
    For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near,
    a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.



    Joel 1:15
    Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand,
    and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.


    Joel 2:1
    Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm
    in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants
    of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh,
    for it is nigh at hand;



    Joel 2:11
    And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army:
    for his camp is very great: for he is strong that
    executeth his word: for the day of the Lord
    is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?


    Joel 2:31
    The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
    before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.


    Joel 3:14
    Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision:
    for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.


    Amos 5:18
    Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord!
    to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord
    is darkness, and not light.



    Amos 5:20
    Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness,
    and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?



    Obadiah 1:15
    For the day of the Lord is near upon all
    the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done
    unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.



    Zephaniah 1:7
    Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD:
    for the day of the Lord is at hand:
    for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.


    Zephaniah 1:14
    The great day of the Lord is near, it is near,
    and hasteth greatly, even the voice
    of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.


    Zechariah 14:1
    Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil
    shall be divided in the midst of thee.



    Malachi 4:5
    Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before
    the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:



    Acts 2:20
    The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
    before the great and notable day of the Lord come:



    1 Corinthians 5:5
    To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction
    of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved
    in the day of the Lord Jesus.



    2 Corinthians 1:14
    As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your
    rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the day of the Lord Jesus.



    1 Thessalonians 5:2
    For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord
    so cometh as a thief in the night.


    2 Peter 3:10
    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
    in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,
    and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
    the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


    THAT DAY in KJV1769 Edition
    source: http://www.biblegateway.com/
    219occurances

    (list omitted. Many 'that day' refer to the day being discussed,
    though some might be prophetic days, one would have to search
    through them carefully. This is beyond the scope of this post)
     
  13. npetreley

    npetreley
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    I did a fairly exhaustive study on the Day of the Lord. It occurs immediately after the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24). It is heralded by distinctive signs (sun goes dark, moon turns to color of blood, and so on). It is when the Lord returns in glory, and it is when the rapture occurs. It is primarily a day of wrath and indignation, although the elect of Israel shall be protected during this time.

    You can find references to the Day of the Lord throughout the Bible, but I recommend Joel, Matthew, Isaiah, Revelation as starting places.

    Many people try to move or "spiritualize" references to the Day of the Lord in order to solve a (non) problem. Since it is when Jesus returns, and since it occurrs immediately after the great tribulation, it stands to reason that there will be a future time when we can know (almost) exactly when Jesus will return. All we need to know is when the man of sin is revealed (the abomination of desolation), and conclude that the Day of the Lord (and the return of Jesus) must occur 3 1/2 years later. Since this contradicts the fact that we cannot know the day or hour of His return, they turn the Day of the Lord into a nebulous time period, sometimes even suggesting it spans the entire "tribulation period" (which doesn't exist anywhere in the Bible).

    It is a non-problem, however. Jesus said that the great tribulation will be cut short for the sake of the elect. Jesus never says how short. Since we cannot possibly know if Jesus will cut the great tribulation short by 1 month, 2 years, or any other time period, we cannot possibly know the hour or day of His return. So the problem they try to solve doesn't exist, and their attempt at a solution is unbiblical.
     
    #13 npetreley, Jul 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2006
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Npetreley: //All we need to know is when the man of sin
    is revealed (the abomination of desolation)//

    The assumption that the revelation of the man of sin
    is the same as the Abomination of Desolation (AOD)
    leads to logical errors. It makes something that needs to
    happen at the start of the 7-year Tribulation Period
    happen at the same time as the mid-trib AOD.
    It compacts the Tribulation Period too much :(

    Better to have these two events at different times.
     
  15. npetreley

    npetreley
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    Like I said, there is no such thing as the 7 year tribulation period, so there is no problem.
     
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    I think it overly optimistic that you can in one sentence think you
    can dismantle my post #4. Suggest you learn how to debate,
    debate is an activity in which one can be trained;
    if one is trainable.
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    I think most people err in not knowing what the historical context of the Day of the Lord is in the Bible by automatically assumung it is some pre-mill Left Behind movie. The Day of The Lord is both described as a day of wrath and judgment against the enemies of God and a day of deliverance for those who are God's people. The ultimate day of the Lord will occur when we see our Lord face to face. For some, it will be like what was described in Amos:

    Link

    I think Jesus, himself uses much of the same idea when he describes those who did good works for him:

    Link

    I realize that this is probably not as exciting and interesting as what Lehaye and Hagee have to offer, but it does come from the Bible.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. KenH

    KenH
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    Yes, and they all happened a long, long time ago.
     
  19. npetreley

    npetreley
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    There's nothing to debate. The most your post #4 accomplishes is to establish that there is one week (7 years), in the midst of which the abomination of desolation occurs, which is how the great tribulation begins. There's nothing in the Bible that describes this week as a 7 year period of tribulation. The only reason people read into the Bible that the whole week will be one of tribulation is so they can reposition the rapture to the beginning of that week. Even then their premise is entirely flawed. We are not spared tribulation - not even great tribulation. We are spared wrath - and that doesn't begin until the Day of the Lord, which starts immediately AFTER the great tribulation.
     
  20. npetreley

    npetreley
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    The only way to come to this conclusion is to assume that Revelation was written before 70 AD. I think you'll find that position extremely difficult to defend.
     

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