respector of persons?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Aug 9, 2016.

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  1. Iconoclast

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    "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour." (Leviticus 19: 15 KJV)

    "Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous." (Deuteronomy 16: 19 KJV)

    "For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means,
    that his banished be not expelled from him." (II Samuel 14: 14 KJV)

    "Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts." (II Chronicles 19: 7 KJV)

    "These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment." (Proverbs 24: 23 KJV)

    "To have respect of persons is not good: for for a piece of bread that man will transgress." (Proverbs 28: 21 KJV)

    "And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear." (I Peter 1: 17 KJV)

    "God is no respecter of persons." (Acts 10: 34)


    Here we have multiple instances of this phrase in both the Old and New Testament. So what are these passages talking about? They are clearly warning the believer against showing favoritism or partiality, because they declare that God Himself does not show partiality or favoritism. And. most importantly, in each of these instances it means neither we nor God give special treatment to a person because of his position, merit, wealth, influence, social standing, authority or popularity. Thus 'respecter of persons' means we are not to favor one person over the other because of ANY superior personal trait in the one favored, and likewise we are not to show prejudice toward those who lack these characteristics.

    So when God unconditionally elects a person in Christ does he first determine who he will choose based on their position, wealth, good looks, influence etc? No. By definition unconditional election means unconditional. It is not conditioned on ANYTHING in us or potentially in us. God does not stand to gain from currying anyone's favor ... even those who are in high positions ... because God gave them that position, wealth, authority or social standing to begin with. The Bible unambiguously teaches, therefore, that God is no respecter of persons in election. Those who are chosen are chosen "in Christ" not because God is thinking about what he has to gain by helping them over others.. God has no need for such things, so, by definition, his choosing us cannot be tainted with such a motive.






    https://www.monergism.com/does-doctrine-unconditional-election-make-god-respecter-persons
     
  2. Iconoclast

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    pt2
    Let's take this a step further: it is actually those who defend CONDITIONAL election who make God a respecter of persons. This is because, if it were true that meeting some condition prompted God's decision to elect his people then His choice of them would be based on their wisdom, prudence, sound judgment, or good sense to believe. He would therefore be looking at the character or merit of that person and choosing them because of it. The Bible, on the contrary, declares that we are all ill-deserving and, as such, God reserves the right to have mercy on whom he will, which is not based in any way on the will of the flesh (John 1:13; Rom 9:15, 16). If God is basing his election on who will have faith then this would, in fact, make God a respecter of persons because these persons are meeting God's criteria in order to be chosen.

    It is most ironic that those bringing this charge are the very ones who make God a respector of persons by making God's love and election "conditional". It is the synergist who believes God shows favoritism or partiality because it is based on whether or not that person meritoriously meets the condition God gives him. In synergism God's love for his people is not unconditional but is given only when someone meets the right condition... i.e. whether someone has faith or not. He chooses them only if they believe in him. Isn't that favoritism? This conditional love is quite different than the love we expect from parents in everyday life. Consider, do you love your children because they do something for you? No, of course not. Don't you still love them even when they do something wrong? Of course. As an example, if your child rebelled against you and made you angry then soon after ran out into oncoming traffic would you run out to save him? or would you wait until he used his own will to prove his love to you first? No as a parent who loved their child you would run out to MAKE CERTAIN your child was not hit by a car regardless of the ebbs and flows of your relationship with him. Your love for him and your choice to save him are based on unconditional love. In fact we would consider the parent who first determined the love of their child as a condition to save them most unloving and cursed.
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    "Iconoclast
    pt2


    This position is dead on arrival. Carnal reasoning leads someone to this idea, void of biblical support.

    We are like Ezekiels Infant;
    Ezekiel 16King James Version (KJV)
    16 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

    2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

    3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

    4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.

    5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.

    6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

    7 I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.

    8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.

    9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.

    10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

    11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.

    12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

    13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.


    Correct....this view is totally rejected
    This error is fatal....:Cautious


    not biblical at all....:Sick

    He chooses them only if they believe in him. Isn't that favoritism? This conditional love is quite different than the love we expect from parents in everyday life. Consider, do you love your children because they do something for you? No, of course not. Don't you still love them even when they do something wrong? Of course. As an example, if your child rebelled against you and made you angry then soon after ran out into oncoming traffic would you run out to save him? or would you wait until he used his own will to prove his love to you first? No as a parent who loved their child you would run out to MAKE CERTAIN your child was not hit by a car regardless of the ebbs and flows of your relationship with him. Your love for him and your choice to save him are based on unconditional love. In fact we would consider the parent who first determined the love of their child as a condition to save them most unloving and cursed.[/QUOTE]
     
  4. Van

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    LOL, this fiction is asserted every six months or so. Does God oppose the proud and give grace to the humble? Yes. That means God is a respecter of persons according to His value system.

    What we have here is yet another Trojan horse, this time pushing unconditional election. But as we all know, 2 Thess. 2:13 is crystal, our election for salvation was through faith in the truth.

    But will forum leadership move it to where it belongs?
     
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  5. Iconoclast

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    Van,

    The only fiction is when you enter a thread and attempt to kill the thread.

    Here is your usual misunderstanding of the topic and scripture anywhere in the bible.The OP shows God is no respector of persons...that is the topic of the OP.
    You cannot welcome truth once again. The whole church understands this. No one on BB believes the falsehood that God is a respector of persons as you suggest...nobody!:Cautious

    The topic here is God is NOT a respector of persons.....you cannot grasp that truth .....no surprise, so what do you do? You proceed with your hatred of true teaching and seek to divert from the verses in the OP.

    In times past you wrest good verses and then give your mistaken ideas instead.....thankfully very few people read these posts:(

    Biblicist crushed this wrong idea you offer....you should be embarrassed to mention it again.....We all know you hold to error on this ....I asked the folks at the truckstop....they agreed you are off target:Roflmao

    No one agrees with your ideas on election...

    God is no respector of persons belongs right here, your paranoid agenda not withstanding.....

    The better question might be for those who edit and delete posts and censor them....how many posts which are off topic and troll like will you be allowed to offer without them deleting your off topic posts....:Redface
     
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  6. Van

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    Repeating nonsense does not validate it. Over and over in scripture God is shown to choose people according to His purpose, such as giving grace to the humble. God is not a respecter of persons according to the world's value system. Such a simple concept, but those inside the Trojan Horse are unable to see the light. Does He choose those rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God? Yes. Does He choose the foolish to shame the wise? Yes Does He proclaim your faith has healed you? Or your faith has saved you? Of course.

    And note, folks, this thread has not been moved.
     
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  7. Iconoclast

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    Van,
    Then stop abusing scripture. The OP has seven sections of scripture, address them or go home.

    The statement makes no sense. 7 sections of scripture in the op and you cannot address them...:Cautious

    off topic.....trolling:Sick:Ninja

    No...off topic trolling:Ninja:Ninja:Ninja:Ninja
     
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  8. SovereignGrace

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    Then quit reading your posts. That is the only fiction on here.


    God chose His ppl not because of who they were or would become but based solely upon Himself and His love for them. There was nothing meritorious in us for God to grant us salvation.


    And you keep beating your gums with the same old tired words. God chose us based solely upon Himself and His love for His chosen ppl.


    And take you with it?
     
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  9. SovereignGrace

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    "For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. The Lord did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt."[Deuteronomy 7:6-8]

    God choosing anyone is not based upon something special within that person, but rather, because He loves them. His name is on the line, and because it is, He makes sure they are saved all the way until the very end.
     
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  10. Van

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    Here we have the unbiblical assertion once again. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 days were are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election.
     
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  11. Iconoclast

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    Off topic.....trolling......
     
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  12. Van

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    Yet another cyber bully attack, a violation of the rule to avoid person attacks.

    Next it is claimed discussing conditional election is off topic, yet the OP addressed unconditional election.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 days were are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election.

    13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

    God is a respecter of persons according to His value system. "He who believes in Him has not been judged, he who does not believe has been judged already...." John 3:18.
     
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  13. OnlyaSinner

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    I wonder if some of the disagreement comes from the meaning one assigns to the phrase "respecter of persons"? To me, in this context, it means to consider some persons more worthy than others. Since we sinful humans have no worthiness whatsoever of ourselves before a holy God, the verses cited in the OP are right on target. Zero always is equal to zero. IMO, the fact that a holy, just, loving, sovereign God chooses some for salvation and not others does not change that fact.
     
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  14. Iconoclast

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    Of course .....you clearly see the obvious truth of the verses in the OP!
    Others failing to grasp what scripture declares profane God's name.
    A false teacher...attempts to teach......but has TOTAL INABILITY to present truth because he cannot welcome it himself....
     
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  15. SovereignGrace

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    Lullz...

    You'd make a great touring comic. Maybe Kathy Griffin needs a partner.

    Great theologian? Nooooooo...
     
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  16. Van

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    God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Thus God considers some people more worthy of grace than others. No one is suggesting God sees holiness or righteousness in the fallen and lost sinner who puts his or her trust in Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:26-30 teaches God chooses individuals based on their characteristics. God chooses people for salvation through faith in the truth. When He credits our faith as righteousness, He turns our worthless faith into righteousness. Romans 4:4-5, 24.

    Therefore God is a respecter of persons according to His value system.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13says we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election.

    13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

    God is a respecter of persons according to His value system. "He who believes in Him has not been judged, he who does not believe has been judged already...." John 3:18.

    .
     
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  17. Van

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    God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Thus God considers some people more worthy of grace than others.

    This is a non Cal teaching which is directly supported in scripture. Those who deny this truth are mistaken.

    Someone does not accept that we are saved by grace through faith. Those who deny this truth are mistaken.

    God chooses people for salvation through faith in the truth. When He credits our faith as righteousness, He turns our worthless faith into righteousness. Romans 4:4-5, 24. Those that deny this truth are mistaken.

    Therefore God is a respecter of persons according to His value system. He chooses those who are poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him. (James 2:5)
     
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  18. HankD

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    What do we do with passages such as the following?
    Are we speaking singularly of the lost?

    Granted these are saved folk.

    Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

    Luke 1
    27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
    28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
    29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
    30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

    Thanks
    HankD
     
  19. Iconoclast

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    Whoever censors the posts take note.....

    If the bible says God is no respecter of persons....and a random person...it could be anyone....no one in particular....shows up and teaches the God is a respecter of persons.......that random person is a FALSE TEACHER.....

    saying so is not "provocative"....it is fact.

    To post in direct opposition to the word of God is automatically a falsehood.....if the person was not quoting someone else, then they themselves are the false teacher.
     
    #19 Iconoclast, Aug 12, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
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  20. Iconoclast

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    I believe them as written to be descriptive of the blessing that has been bestowed on the person.
     
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