Revelation 22

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Chowmah, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. Chowmah

    Chowmah
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    Revelation 22 has many truths that are ignored by the many

    GEN.3 [22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    In the beginning of the good book scripture says, we must take of the tree of life and live forever

    PROVERBS 13 [12] Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is A TREE OF LIFE.[13]Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but HE THAT FEARETH THE COMMANDMENT SHALL BE REWARDED.[14] The law of the wise is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

    In the middle of the book scripture speaks of the tree of life and is reserved for those who keep the commandments and the law.

    REVELATION 22 [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    In the end of the book (new testament) scripture says you may take hold of the tree of life and enter into the city (1000yr. period of rest) only if you keep the commandments. To the "many" who claim that Gods 10 commandments have been nailed to the cross i ask...what do you do with the new covenant scriptures found in the last book of your bible?
     
  2. Dr. Walter

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    First, eternal life is the present possession of every true believer the moment they believe (Jn. 5:24; 11:26).

    Second, the tree of life is composed of fruit that one may eat (Rev. 2:7) and leaves (Rev. 22:2).

    Third, in the new creation there are two classes of "saved" people! There are the nations of the "saved" who dwell outside the New Jerusalem on the new earth (Rev. 21:24) and the "leaves" are for them (Rev. 22:2). Then there are the overcomers (Rev. 2:7) who live inside the New Jerusalem (Rev. 22:1-3) who "eat" of the the fruit of the tree. Neither the eating of the fruit or receiving the leaves of the tree obtain eternal life for either as they already are in the new heaven and earth when they partake of the tree.

    Fourth, eating of the tree are for those who are the faithful that compose the bride of Christ (Rev. 2:7; 21:14) as the tree resides in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 22:2). There are "saved" dwelling on the new earth that do not eat of the tree and yet have eternal life (Rev. 21:24). However, they dwell OUTSIDE the New Jerusalem on the new earth and are ruled over by "kings" (Rev. 21:24) because they were not faithful in their previous life and reception of the leaves indicate they were not faithful.

    The tree of life first existed in the garden of Eden. When Adam and Eve lived in the garden they were not "saved" because they had no sin. They were safe and they had access to the tree of life. However, when they sinned and God faced them with their sin, they had covered their shame with "leaves" and were cast out of the garden but nevertheless God provided salvation for them outside the garden through the shedding of blood signified by clothing them - covering them in the skins with the gospel preached to them (Gen. 3:15). Likewise, the "saved" living outside the New Jerusalem (paradise of God) on the new earth are given "leaves" to heal their shame while those who have been faithful live inside the city (the paradise of God) with the tree in the midst and have access to the fruit!

    Partaking of the tree, whether the leaves or eating the fruit does not convey eternal life but does convey what status (faithful/unfaithful) and where the "saved" live in the life to come (inside or outside the New Jerusalem).


    A. The nations of the Saved OUTSIDE the City on the New Earth

    Rev. 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

    Rev. 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Rev. 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.



    B. The Overcomers inside the City


    Rev. 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Rev. 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


    C. Conclusion

    The tree of life has nothing to do with obtain spiritual life but is for those who have already obtained spiritual life. The leaves are given to those "saved" who dwell in the new heavens and earth upon the new earth OUTSIDE the city due to previous unfaithfulness and the "leaves" are given to them to heal their shame.

    The fruit of the tree is given to the saved "overcomers" (Rev. 2:7) who live in the city (the bride) because of their previous faithfulness (Rev. 22;14).

    The Tree of life is for all the saved but eating of the fruit and living in the city is for the Bride of Christ (2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 19:6-8). The REWARD of faithfulness to the Lord's New Testament congregation here and now - living in obedience to the Great Commission.
     
    #2 Dr. Walter, Feb 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2011
  3. Chowmah

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    Hey Doc,
    Your speculation is well noted.

    REVELATION 22 [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

    Still without a doubt (no speculation), its those who are doing Gods 10 commandments that may have right to the tree of life and those that may enter the city. As for John 5{24}, there are those who claim they believe but have the spirit of unbelief.
     
  4. Dr. Walter

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    The Ten commandments were given to restrain the fallen nature and that is why the word "not" is repeated in each command. There is no "not" in the commandment of Christ because the regenerated nature delights in God's law.

    The Ten commandments are GENERAL principles that underlay the ceremonial and civil lawthat deal with every aspect of human life. The civil and ceremonial laws are morally based or grounded in moral law. Every ceremonial and civil law reflects a moral principle. The civil and ceremonial observance is abolished by the cross but not the moral principle found in each ceremonial and civil law.

    The moral law is reflected in the conscience of all mankind (Rom. 1:20; 2:15) and therefore both Mosaic and Natural law reflect the standard of God's moral righteousness.

    The life of Christ is the fullest revelation of the righteousness of God and is revealed in the gospel (Rom. 1:17; 3:21-22, 24-26) and the only righteousness that satisfies that standard and therefore Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe (Rom. 10:4).

    Outside of Christ there is no righteous man on earth (Psa.14:2-3; Rom. 3:9-11) and only those "in Christ" are righteous in God's sight and you must be "created in Christ Jesus" and that comes through faith (Eph. 2:8-10) BEFORE any of your works are even considered as "good" (Eph. 2:10b).

    Hence, Commandment keeping does not get one "in Christ" and therefore commandment keeping does not get one into heaven. However, commandment keeping gets one into the New Jerusalem while other "saved" people are in the new earth beyond the white throne judgement but outside the New Jerusalem - Rev. 21:24!

    Therefore, the commandment keeping in Rev. 22:14 does not gain entrance into the new heaven and earth but only into the New Jerusalem as their home. This is the description of the Bride who dwells there in (Rev. 19:6-8) but not of all the saved who dwell in heaven but on earth outside of the New Jerusalem (Rev.21:24).
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Do I understand you right, Dr Walter, therefore, that the 'New Jerusalem' is metaphor of the Church on earth, and the 'New Earth' metaphor of the New Earth?
     
  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE:

    Chowman, ever thought of taking EVERYTHING in this Scripture, strictly for what it says? That "Hope" is Christ; and that Christ is our "Desire"; that Christ is "Life" and the "Tree of Life" from which all living branches do grow;
    that Christ is "The Word"; and that he that "feareth", "feareth" CHRIST THE LORD; that Christ “The Command(der)” is the Rewarder of them that do good; because Christ "God, only is good", "wise" and "the Fountain" and "Water of Life"— "Life" even "eternal Life" : the "Saviour" and "Redeemer" from the "snares of death"?
     
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE:

    Yes, the Ten Commandments, and each and all Law which is the Scriptures are found in and are founded upon Jesus Christ; He is the personification as well as PERSON of the whole Word of God. He is The Ten but not as the Ten, but as the ONE "WORD" of, synonymous and identical with, GOD. God's Law is INFINITELY ABOVE OUR COMPREHENSION because it is "our LIFE", and, "is HID WITH CHRIST IN GOD".

    It is impossible to divide or to separate the Law and the Life of God; man cannot be the keeper of God; so he cannot be the keeper of God's Law. All attempts must be futile.
     
  8. Dr. Walter

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    Unglorified New Testament congregations, such as the one at Corinth are metaphorical brides in the sense of an espoused wife not yet presented (2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 22:16-17). The New Jerusalem is literal and is the dwelling place of the glorified congregation of Christ (Rev. 22:1; 19:6-8). There are "saved" who dwell outside the new Jerusalem and therefore salvation does not equal "bride."
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Not that I understand, but thanks, anyway.
     
  10. Chowmah

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    REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    Verse 15 tells us who are outside the city. Which of them do you claim are saved?
     
  11. Chowmah

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    Yes. Strictly for what it says

    PROVERBS 13 [12] Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is A TREE OF LIFE.[13]Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but HE THAT FEARETH THE COMMANDMENT SHALL BE REWARDED.[14] The law of the wise is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

    Strictly for what it says. Does that scripture say fear Christ or does it say fear the commandment
     
  12. Chowmah

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    That bein said, i agree we should fear the Lord

    ACTS 9 [31] Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

    MATTHEW 15 [8] This people draweth nigh unto me with THEIR MOUTH, and honoureth me with THEIR LIPS; but THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. [9] But in vain they do worship me, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.

    ISAIAH 29 [13] Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but HAVE REMOVED THEIR HEART FAR FROM ME, AND THEIR FEAR TOWARD ME IS TAUGHT BY THE PRECEPT OF MEN:

    So who are these people who say they believe in the Lord and honor the Lord with their words but because they “fear not” the Lord, they keep not His commandments but keep the commandments of man? Who are these people who worship the Lord in vain?

    LUKE 12 [4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. [5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, FEAR HIM.

    DEUT. 6 [1] Now THESE ARE THE COMMANDMENTS, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: [2] THAT THOU MIGHTEST FEAR THE LORD THY GOD, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

    PSALM 111 [10] The FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding HAVE ALL THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS: his praise endureth for ever.

    PROVERBS 1 [7] THE FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. [8] My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and FORSAKE NOT THE LAW of thy mother:[9] For they shall be an ornament of GRACE unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

    Heres a great scripture. Forsake not the law. Fear the Lord, get wisdom and receive His grace.

    ISAIAH 51 [5] My righteousness is near; MY SALVATION IS GONE FORTH, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust. [6] Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but MY SALVATION SHALL BE FOR EVER, and my righteousness shall not be abolished. [7] Hearken unto me, YE THAT KNOW RIGHTEOUSNESS, THE PEOPLE IN WHOSE HEART IS MY LAW; FEAR YE NOT THE REPROACH OF MEN, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

    Salvation? Being saved. The law. Dont fear men! Keep the 10 commandments. Hmmm… Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever.
     
  13. Chowmah

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    MALACHI 4 [1] For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. [2] BUT UNTO YOU THAT FEAR MY NAME shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. [3] And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts. [4] REMEMBER YE THE LAW OF MOSES my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

    Now why would the WORD say in a Day of the Lord scripture (when He returns to fire up the bad guys) that we are to remember the Law of Moses if the law of Moses has been done away with? FEAR HIM!
     
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE:

    Ah! You have struck at the HEART!!
     
  15. Dr. Walter

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    This illustrates your problem. You pit scripture against scripture rather than seeking an interpretation that harmonizes scripture.

    The New Earth is also outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, hence, according to your logic, the new earth is outside and therefore must be evil or hell itself. The "saved" nations live outside the New Jerusalem upon the new earth (Rev. 21:24).

    You have no answer and therefore you pit scripture against scripture.
     
  16. Chowmah

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    No good Dr, i do not pit scripture against scripture. I let scripture interpret scripture.
     
  17. Chowmah

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    Or should i say inter-pit scipture
     
  18. BobRyan

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    Good questions.

    Thanks for asking -- I believe Paul's answer would be --
    1Cor 7:19 "But what matters is keeping the Commandments of God".

    No wonder that is what the saints are doing in Rev 14:12.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE:

    I believe Revelation 14:12 IDENTIFIES "the Faith of Jesus" and "keep the commandments of God" in the Greek,

    'tehrountes tas entolas (mark the Plural --- not only 'entoleh' for the TC) tou Theou _KAI_ tehn pistin Iehsou.'

    In other words, "the Faith of Jesus", DEFINES the concept of "the keeping the LAWS of God".

    The Conjunctive 'kai' - "and" - functions strongly like were it the Verb, 'to be'. The passage is faithfully rendered, "Here are they that keep the Laws of God _EVEN_ the Faith of Jesus."
     
    #19 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Mar 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2011
  20. Dr. Walter

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    GE would you consider Iehsou an objective genitive? "the faith which has Jesus for its object"??
     

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