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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by preacher4truth, Oct 16, 2013.
Does revival come by the free will choice of redeemed mankind, or via a Sovereign decree of God?
Interesting question since we're covering this in church. Honestly, I think it comes from God moving the hearts of men. I just can't see it from any other angle.
Having read accounts of this it looks like a Sovereign act of God.
Lot's of people pray corporately for revival though. I wonder about that as well. I've heard of 'praying through' as if saying 'OK God, we are going to pray for X amount of time until you send revival' and so people have done this to no avail.
Then I've read the account of George Whitfield, struggling with salvation, wrestling with God then God coming upon him mightily and using him to spark revival.
I've also read where (can't remember who now) that a person had gone into the street to pray, then others would join in and pray with him, and the group grew, but they weren't necessarily praying for God to give revival, just seeking Him through and in prayer, and God sent revival, a special pouring out of His Spirit, empowering them &c.
It goes along with my belief that we don't pray God into doing anything or to endorse our own agenda, but we pray to God to find His leading, direction and will.
It all points to His Sovereignty in my mind, He doing as He wills to do with whom He wills to do it, and even to the point of Him impressing on the hearts of those to whom He desires to work, to actually pray for that end, and receive it. - Php. 2:13.
Yep! I wonder if the event you can't remember is the Fulton Street Revival? https://www.rca.org/sslpage.aspx?pid=1824
Thanks for that link, I will check it out more fully tonight after services.
Looking at it, albeit in cursory fashion, I don't think that is it, as the one I referred to started on the street, but it did end up meeting somewhere else and grew. Even if the two are differing, they're still important and show that God is Sovereign, and it all still reflects Php. 2:13 at work in the hearts of believers.
Don't churches hang up a sign and schedule it? You know revival every Thursday at 8pm.
Does 2 Chronicles 7:14 apply to our definition of revival?
How about it being both?
God mades a decision to have revival hit a city, town, nation etc , as its fits His desired Will, accomplished His plans and purposes, and to have that come to pass, chooses to work through Christians here, by placing on their hearts and minds deep desires to earnestly seek him and to seek him to move in His own special ways?
If God is the one who places these desires into His people, and assuredly He does, then free will is excluded, as it did not start there, but in the mind of God. Therefore I cannot see man having revival merely because he wills it to be so.
God causes mans will to both desire and do His will, both in the salvation process, and in revival, and also in other areas of His will and direction for His people. Therefore God is Sovereign in this realm as well, and He is not then controlled by prayers of saints &c to act upon their desires, but directs them to want His will to be done, as in the disciples prayer. Some see this Sovereign decree and doing as He wills as making men 'robots'.
Interestingly enough, those who 'do His will', something which He, via His sovereignty, causes His people to desire, are said to be the ones who inherit eternal life, as they 'do His will' -- Matthew 7:21ff.
The Father knows best? :godisgood:
So, for others who may differ, are we free then to have revival whenever we so desire, or, is that under God's control?
I think I went there one night. Is that on Wednesdays too? :laugh:
The last time I preached a 'revival' I told the preacher I'll preach, but I don't bring revival.
Well I guess then the OP is answered.
We are in agreement here, as I do NOT see us 'working ourselves up" to want and desire to see a revival, but desiring God to do that, and seeking him, AFTER he already willed us to come to Him, as He placed that into us first!
We are just His chosen agents to work through to get it to pass, same way that He as ordained that the elect will be saved by us taking the Gospel out to them!
One more thing.
Many people are saved in revivals, in droves, and all of this by Gods design, decree, adding to the church as He wills, as also in Acts. Therefore we see God being consistently Him, immutable, in Sovereign reign, doing things for His Purpose, showing mercy to whom He wills, and in this particular case, when He so desires.
Only calvinists can really see revival happening, for since that is first and foremost based upon the Will of God, we KNOW that if God has chosen that to come to pass, it will, regardless of how "powerful' we preach the Bible...
Non cals have to rely upon how effective we can get the real message across to sinners....
I think even non-cals, for the most part, believe the power of preaching comes from the Holy Spirit.
true, but some seem to imply that its due to Human will and response that salvation and revival would occur, so its us taking upon ourselves the task to get revival going, and THEN God honors us starting the process!
I'll ask another question:
Can we hinder revival? How?
Both quenching and grieving the Spirit are similar in their effects. Both hinder a godly lifestyle. Both happen when a believer sins against God and follows his or her own worldly desires. The only correct road to follow is the road that leads the believer closer to God and purity, and farther away from the world and sin. Just as we do not like to be grieved, and just as we do not seek to quench what is good—so we should not grieve or quench the Holy Spirit by refusing to follow His leading.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/grieve-quench-Holy-Spirit.html#ixzz2hzxAqKzf
Would say that we can hinder what the Lord desires for MY revival, but that he will also have the means to bring to pass His Will in the Revival, for IF I chosse to stay on the sidelines, someone else will be brought in to take my spot!