Rick Santorum, The Constitution, and the Declaration

Discussion in 'Politics' started by PamelaK, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. PamelaK

    PamelaK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,504
    Likes Received:
    0
    I came across this through one of Rick's Facebook pages and was wondering about the opinions of my Ron Paul supporter friends here. I would have liked to see more concrete quotes from Ron Paul given by Rick. I would like to further research this but just don't have the time now since I'll be gone for the rest of the day and this evening. I appreciate and thank you for your comments ahead of time. Note: The article continues below the large mid-page ad.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/santorum-constitution-and-declaration_617157.html
     
  2. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly! :thumbs:
     
  3. matt wade

    matt wade
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    76
    Opinions on what? There are no facts about any thing specific in this entire article. I'd be happy to comment on something, but need something to comment on.
     
  4. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >The Constitution has to be read in the context of another founding document, and that’s the Declaration of Independence.

    100% wrong if the the USA is "a country ruled by law, not men." This is the same goofy argument used by the people who think we should be governed by British Common Law and Black's Dictionary. We are governed by case law because the Constitution requires it.
     
  5. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Further, Santorum's statement is "insider speak" for "The Constitution has to be read in the context of another founding document, and that’s the King James Bible."

    The Constitution as amended is not "a founding document." It is the law of the land.
     
  6. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    All of this completely absurd. No one said anything about the KJV and regardless of the amendments it is still the founding documents.
     
  7. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Read in the context" Not sure how that is so confusing. And Case law must be based on the constitution.
     
  8. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    All case law is based on the Constitution.
     
  9. PamelaK

    PamelaK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matt, as I already acknowledged it could be a much more substantive article, but Rick says that Ron Paul has a Libertarian view of the Constitution, that of "radical individualism". He also states in reference to viewing the Constitution within the context of the Declaration of Independence: "See, that’s what Ron Paul sort of leaves out. He leaves out rights and responsibilities that we have from God that this Constitution is to protect. And he says, “No, we just have rights, and then that’s it.” No, we don’t. America is a moral enterprise…." Do you agree/know anything about that in relation to Ron Paul? Do you agree/disagree with the premise?
     
    #9 PamelaK, Jan 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2012
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,189
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Wow. It is amazing how little some Americans know about their country.

    The Primary Source Documents of the United States of America were The Declaration of Independence (July 1776), The Articles of Confederation (passed by Congress in 1777 and ratified by the 13 States in 1781), and the Federalist Papers of 1787.

    The Constitution, on the other hand, started out to be a revision/amending of the Articles of Confederation, but after meeting all summer it was decided to draft an entirely new document, the Constitution.

    The new Constitution was completed in late 1787 and Congress submitted the new Constitution to the States for ratification. In January of 1791 the last of the States ratified the new Constitution and in February of 1791 Congress met and affirmed it to be the law of the land.
     
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,189
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Rick Santorum either fails to understand Ron Paul's position or he has deliberately misstated it. Ron Paul recognizes the fact that "natural rights" are "God given" and the Constitution does not bestow those rights on us but prevents to government from taking those God given rights away from us. :)

    And, at least Ron Paul is an Evangelical (Baptist) while the "religious right" supports a practicing Roman Catholic. :)
     
  12. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,122
    Likes Received:
    220
    No he isn't! "All of our children were raised in the Episcopal Church"
    Currently he attends First Baptist Church in Lake Jackson (but not a member - Hmm - I wonder why)
     
  13. Havensdad

    Havensdad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,382
    Likes Received:
    0
    Umm, Ron Paul may not be a member of First Baptist Church of Lake Jackson, but he is a practicing Southern Baptist; I was a member of that local association until two months ago, and knew the pastor...though they just got a NEW pastor (FYI).

    Ron Paul, from what I understand, is a regular church attender, tither, and supports the church.

    And, FYI he stated why he, AND his children, left the Episcopal church...


    " All of our children were raised in the Episcopal Church. Some [places] were fairly conservative but my wife and I thought the Episcopal Church advocated a position that we didn’t endorse, so we left. And our children did not stay in the Episcopal Church either.

    I think it was the abortion issue. I imagine they had some other issues. But I think the abortion issue was the real big thing. And I think also some of the money was going to some of the international organizations that were more political—they weren’t missionaries. So it was an objection over the way some of the money was being spent."

    So he left because their views didn't square with the Bible on abortion, and because the money wasn't being spent on missionary work. I would hope we would all appreciate those views...
     
  14. PamelaK

    PamelaK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for your answer. I'm hoping to look more into this - Ron Paul's position - tomorrow. As for your comment on the religious right, I thought both the religious right and the Christian right were composed of conservative evangelicals, conservative Catholics, etc, etc. Am I incorrect? Thanks!
     
  15. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,122
    Likes Received:
    220
    If he is not a member - he is not a Baptist - let alone a Southern Baptist.

    Has he been immersed? Again, why has he not joined?
     
  16. Havensdad

    Havensdad
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,382
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe it has something to do with his desire to not tout his religious views in his politics.

    As far as your statement...well, that is just ridiculous. The idea of the "letter" in the local church, is a modern invention. The early church gathered together...they didn't have membership rolls. Some Baptists, even today, still advocate this.

    Regardless, Paul says he is a Southern Baptist, as does his pastor. So I tend to believe them. If you want to imagine objections, which you do not have proof of one way or the other, be my guest. But it doesn't change the facts.

    There are two evangelicals (Paul and Perry) running for office. There are two Catholics running for office. Gingrich isn't so bad...he is not a devout Catholic. This cannot be said of Santorum, who is extremely devout. And considering that the Catholic church issued a "infallible" papal decree in the late 1800's, condemning the U.S.A. for, among other things, the lack of submission to the Roman Catholic church, it is particularly scary to hear Santorum talk of needing a large government for social enforcement...
     
  17. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,122
    Likes Received:
    220
    I hereby declare myself a member of MENSA - therefore I am




    It would be interesting to know if Paul has been immersed?
     
  18. J.D.

    J.D.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    8
    Seems to me that 1) Santorum is desparate for something to stick to Paul (and this doesn't), 2) Santorum is revealing his anti-personal-liberty view of the constitution, which is at the heart of the neocon philosophy. Bill Kristol revealed the same love of nannygov during his dispicable rant against Paul the other night.
     

Share This Page

Loading...