Rick Warren and Interfaith Political Conference

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Marcia, Jul 24, 2008.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I am posting this here because I think Rick Warren is a Baptist pastor and this article touches on theological issues. Some might think this belongs in Politics, but I am not interested in political views. I'd rather hear people's reactions to the theological issues here. I posted the link and an excerpt.

    I'd like to get your thoughts on it.

    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=186784
     
  2. PilgrimPastor

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    For those us who are interested heavily in "The Common Good" of bringing people into a covenant relationship with Christ, this is troubling. Rick Warren seems to have bought into the postmodern Church worldview hook, line, and sinker. While I really do respect his desire to use his notoriety in and outside the Church effectively, I would have to ask the question, "How does one define effectiveness in this context?" We need to ask ourself some serious questions in this era;

    What is our role in society as the Church? Is it purely salvific, to bring people into covenant relationship with Christ, or do we have a broader social responsibility in the here and now affairs of this life? If we do have such a role to play in society, what is supposed to look like? Politics? Justice movements? Local benevolent organizations?

    What about this event my church did last month for a local school for special needs kids? http://www.1stperu.org/events.htm

    What about boycotts of a political nature? (I started toying with a blog idea) http://chrissurber.blogspot.com/

    What is our role, in my estimation? To look like Christ dying on the Cross for this world inasmuch as we are enabled by God. We should look much less like a political action committee and much more like Christ on the Cross.

    As for Warren, I have mixed thoughts on his ministry, but I respect that he is not sitting on the sidelines watching the game being played; he has his pads and helmet on and is willing to play the game...
     
  3. Marcia

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    So no one has trouble with this except for the one person who responded?

    Would you be okay having such a conference at your church?
     
  4. annsni

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    As it's presented, yes, I can see why it could be troubling.

    However, I'd like to hear the direct quote that they would not print - but instead put it in their own words:

    I've seen articles that totally change what was really said. I'd personally like to see a true quote on this issue. And more than just a sentence or two.
     
  5. Marcia

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    You make a good point. I'll try to find it.

    I did find a poll on whether or not people agree with this statement:
    http://onenewsnow.com/Poll.aspx?ekfrm=189404

    I am not in way saying RW is not a believer, but I am concerned with his seeming inclusiveness with non-believers in situations like this.

    I will try to find the quote but don't have a lot of time for it.
     
  6. Marcia

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    This is not the quote, but it's a video of RW explaining why he works with people of other faiths, partnering with "houses of worship" (even non-Christian ones), and his P.E.A.C.E. Plan:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptGh_xU2PCc
     
  7. annsni

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    I've seen that video before. I agree with him that the "faith community" has a lot of clout and can do a lot of things for people if they wanted to. It doesn't mean the Gospel is compromised, IMO.
     
  8. ReformedBaptist

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    I am posting because when I looked at this thread it had 6 replies, and 66 views. 666.... :eek:
     
  9. Lou Martuneac

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    The roots of Saddleback sink deeply into the ministry philosophy of ultra liberal Robert Schuller:

    Warren spoke for Schuller in subsequent conferences.

    1. Warren embraces deliberate pragmatism of the worst kind. He believes that anyone one can be reached based on "finding the key to that person's heart." Therefore, the unbelieving community sets the agenda for his church: Warren says, "We let the unchurched needs determine our programs; the unchurched hang-ups determine our strategy; the unchurched culture determine our style; the unchurched population determine our goals." (PD website)

    2. Warren routinely misuses Scripture. The Bible is a tool that Warren manipulates to cover his own ideas with a veneer of divine authority. For example, in the Purpose Driven Life he quotes from 15 Bible versions and paraphrases, picking and choosing the one that fits his pragmatic need. This process often wrenches texts out of context.

    3. Warren is guilty of serious theological reductionism. He discounts the value of a well-rounded system of doctrine and even considers doctrine an obstacle to unity. On his Purpose Driven website he lists his doctrinal statement that any Bible college graduate would find completely inadequate:

    His doctrine of theology proper is the following: "God is bigger and better and closer than we can imagine." That's it for the doctrine of God. It is so insufficient one could say that it falls short of an adequate understanding of the Christian concept of God the Father.

    4. Warren promotes extreme ecumenism. In April, 2005, the PD org. officially forged ties with the Roman Catholic Church by providing a training conference at Holy Family Catholic Church in Inverness, Illinois. "We are excited by this because we are seeing God unify his churches." (Pastor Brett Schrock, Purpose Driven's Director of Strategic Relationships.)

    5. Warren justifies cultural capitulation by embracing anti-God cultural norms. A notable example of this occurred when Warren sang the Jimi Hendrix song, "Purple Haze," during the 25th anniversary celebration service of Saddleback Church.

    6. Warren redefines ministry in terms of social activism. Alan Wolfe of the Wall Street Journal says, "Historians are likely to pinpoint Mr. Warren's trip to Rwanda as the moment when conservative evangelical Protestantism made questions of social justice central to its concerns."

    Warren's Global Peace Plan for "Purpose Driven Nations" includes involving himself with the UN, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. in order to rid the world of "poverty, disease, and illiteracy" by forming entangling alliances between churches, secular businesses, and governments. This is an agenda completely foreign to the Great Commission and the NT church as laid out in Acts and the Pauline Epistles.

    7. Warren accepts easy-believism. "Wherever you are reading this, I invite you to bow your head and quietly whisper the prayer that will change your eternity: 'Jesus, I believe in you and receive you.' If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God!" (PDL, p. 74).

    8. Warren relies heavily on pop psychology. Popular themes in secular psychology appear regularly in Warren’s writings, shaping everything from outreach strategy to discipleship curricula.

    How the "Purpose Driven" Ministry Mishandled the "Purpose" of the Scriptures
     
    #9 Lou Martuneac, Jul 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2008
  10. preachinjesus

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    I would jump up and down happy if the church where I get to serve would have something like this.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting the two leading candidates for the next leader of the free world to sit down and talk candidly about things. I applaud Rev Warren for this and thank God for his fine testimony. :)
     
  11. Marcia

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    I agree with almost all of your points. I was astounded at how often he took scripture out of context in his book, The PDL. He did make some excellent points and then he would go off into another direction that had me going, "Huh?" I looked up most of the passages he cited as I read. This is what I usually do with anyone's book.
     
  12. Marcia

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    Really? You would make your church part of a political forum? Or your role as pastor to be a political person? I think it's fine to get the candidates to get together to talk, but I don't see it as a pastor's job.

    And no matter whether that quote was true or not, I would really not want my church to host a conference where platforms are given to unbelievers.

    What about the principle underlying 2 John 1.9-11?

    As I understand this, this means you do not give a platform to a false teacher in your church. It looks too much like you endorse them, and also it could lead to some being influenced by them.
     
  13. webdog

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    What is wrong with a believer and unbeliever rallying together to help put a stop to abortion? To gang murder? To illegal drug use? To homelessness?
     
  14. tinytim

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    While I usually like RW... With this I disagree with him on.
    I heard this story on CNN this past Monday (July 21) and I commented that it is not a Pastor's place to host political events...

    While I see from RW's perspective that he is giving his congregation and community this chance to personally hear each candidate's stances...
    I just could not subject my ministry to the political arena.

    JMHO
     
  15. Marcia

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    Doing it individually is one thing, but doing it as a pastor with your whole church, or telling your church to do it, or telling all believers to do it, is another matter altogether.

    I would not want to work with Mormons on abortion, for example. I know they are against most abortions (not all) because they believe they have to give bodies to the heavenly spirits birthed from their God and his wife in heaven.

    I realize some believers see this differently, but it would bother my conscience to do it. But I would not say to an individual, "You shouldn't do that." However, if my pastor was hosting a conference at my church and givng a platform for Unitarians and pro-gay rights advocates, I would have a huge issue with that!

    Or if my pastor told me this was the way to spread the gospel - to work with unbelievers on these issues, I would have to disagree.

    The way to spread the gospel is to give the gospel.

    Isn't this whole social justice scenario the way the mainline churches fell away from the gospel?
     
  16. webdog

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    I see where you come from and respect your view. I agree with this notion to a degree. I guess I have the idea that the church building is only a building, and if this building is used as a tool to put an end to these things, so be it. I tend to think we in "christendom" hold the buildings we meet in as "The Lord's House", when in fact the church consists of the people, not the place.
     
  17. Amy.G

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    2Jo 1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
    2Jo 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
    2Jo 1:11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.


    Marcia, you beat me to it. These verses have been hotly debated recently on the BB. I think the conference that is the subject of this thread is exactly where this scripture applies. We are not to bring in false teachers or their doctrines into our "house" or church.
     
  18. Marcia

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    Thanks for your gracious remarks, Webdog.

    I guess one area we disagree on is the church building. I realize it's only a building but it does represent part of the body of Christ and is a religious place. After all, it's not taxed (at least in the U.S.). I think how it's used is extremely important as it is an example for how believers are worshiping and witnessing.

    Also, I believe God will hold us (or at least the pastors) accountable for how the building is used since it does represent the body of Christ (at least in part). Giving a forum for unbelievers in a place representing the body of Christ violates, I believe, the principle of the 2 John passage quoted above.
    :wavey:
     
  19. Amy.G

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    If the church building doesn't mean anything, then we should be able to rent it out for use by KKK meetings, right?

    Of course not!
     
  20. webdog

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    Not quite what I meant :) Even church buildings will be burned up some day, there is nothing "holy" about a building.

    I believe that passage in 2 John is used out of context. It is referring to believers giving a platform for an unbeliever to share his false gospel, i.e. spiritual matters, which would mean believers give their approval of doing so. I don't see this conference as doing that at all. It is bringing to light the toils of humanity, and working to eradicate them.
     
    #20 webdog, Jul 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2008

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