Romans 12:6

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Deacon, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon
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    I need some Greek help

    Romans 12:6

    Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;
    ESV

    According to the grace given to us, we have different gifts: If prophecy, use it according to the standard of faith;
    HCSB

    Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, *according to the proportion of his faith;
    *Or in agreement with the faith
    NASB95

    The "Gift of Prophecy" seems so out of place in this section of Romans (12:3-8).

    Most translations translate the phrase "in proportion to our faith; "

    It's meaning is obscure.

    The meaning is so much clearer in the alternative translation.

    Is the alternative reading in Holmans CSB and the NASB note a translation alternative and/or dynamic equivalence? ...or something else???

    Rob
     
  2. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Rob, what point are you trying to make? I'm really not getting it.

    At any rate, these are all charisma gifts, same word as in 1 Cor. 12:4ff.
     
  3. Deacon

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    What point TC?

    I noticed what seems to be important differences between the versions in this verse.

    I think the CSB version is very clear but don't think it says the same thing most others say.

    Is there a difference in meaning? I think there is!

    Why is there a difference? Can you help me understand?

    I found something but I'm not sure I understand it.

    Rob
     
  4. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life
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    .......but, but......I thought all these MV's said the same thing!!??:laugh:
     
  5. TCGreek

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    Rob, I overlooked the CSB's rendering. You're so right.

    The CSB's rendering is objective while the others are subjective.

    But if we see a true parallelism with "measure of faith" (v.3) and "proportion of faith" (v.6), then we'd have to go subjective, a person's faith.

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. Tater77

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    proportion

    • noun 1 a part, share, or number considered in relation to a whole. 2 the ratio of one thing to another. 3 the correct or pleasing relation of things or between the parts of a whole. 4 (proportions) dimensions; size.

    • verb formal adjust so as to have a particular or suitable relationship to something else.

    — PHRASES in (or out of) proportion 1 according (or not according) to a particular relationship in size, amount, or degree. 2 regarded without (or with) exaggeration. sense of proportion the ability to judge the relative importance of things.

    — DERIVATIVES proportioned adjective.

    — ORIGIN Latin, from pro portione ‘in respect of a share’

    standard

    • noun 1 a level of quality or attainment. 2 a required or agreed level of quality or attainment. 3 something used as a measure, norm, or model in comparative evaluations. 4 (standards) principles of honourable, decent behaviour. 5 a military or ceremonial flag. 6 an upright water or gas pipe. 7 a tree that grows on an erect stem of full height. 8 a shrub grafted on an erect stem and trained in tree form.

    • adjective 1 used or accepted as normal or average. 2 (of a size, measure, etc.) regularly used or produced. 3 (of a work, writer, etc.) viewed as authoritative and so widely read.

    — DERIVATIVES standardly adverb.

    — ORIGIN Old French estendart, from estendre ‘extend’.

    ἀναλογία
    analogia
    an-al-og-ee'-ah
    From a compound of G303 and G3056; proportion: - proportion.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Holman is the only translation I have that doesnt use proportion except for the old Bishops Bible which uses "measure" which is a little closer to proportion.

    What they have done is took the liberty of interpreting the phrase for you. While the others just translated literally.

    If you look at proportion in its verb form you have its meaning as comparing and living up to something. That being "faith". So in effect you are taking an action according to the standards of something, faith in this case.
     
  7. John of Japan

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    After reading it in Greek I think you have to interpret "proportion" according to the aorist passive participle "given" in the first half of the verse. So we are to prophesy only to the "proportion," or comparative amount of faith given to us to prophesy.

    The word for "proportion," only occurs here in the NT, but it's not that difficult a word. Anlex has its meaning as, "ἀναλογία , ας , ἡ as showing the correspondence between two things right relationship, comparison, proportion; κατὰ τὴν ἀναλογίαν in agreement with, in proportion to." According to the Perseus database (and Liddell-Scott-Jones lexicon) it was used in classical Greek by mathematicians for comparing ratios, etc.
     
    #7 John of Japan, Jul 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2009
  8. Deacon

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    Ugh, I was called on to lead a discussion on this passage tomorrow evening and I just don’t have enough time!

    Thanks for your responses everyone, they’ve all been helpful directing me.

    I’ve had a chance to do some quicky research.

    I find that my appraisal of the phrase is substantiated; it's quite problematic.

    On my shelf I found a conservative commentary by R.C. Sproul called “The Gospel of Romans”.
    In his book he uses the most common translation of the phrase, “in proportion to his faith”.
    But then he writes,
    Sounds like he was looking over the shoulders of those who translated the CSB.


    On Google books I found some technical commentaries, one book by Paul Kariuki Njiru called, Charisms and the holy spirit's activity in the body of Christ has some very good footnotes that directly relate to this problem.
    (p 245,6)

    Moo’s commentary is HERE I'm going to have to spend some serious cash and get that series for my library.




    Discussion outline​

    Do you have charisma?
    • Romans 12:3 Accepting God’s will for the gifts he’s given you
    Why do I need to be involved with other Christians?
    What factors hinder involvement in fellowship with other believers?
    • Romans 12:6-8 Using your spiritual gifts in harmony with other believers

    • Ministry creates community
    • Mission results in connection
    *Open discussion regarding gifts and giftedness

    Rob
     
  9. Deacon

    Deacon
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    I came across this newer study version while studying;
    I thought I'd put it through the paces with this older thread of mine.

    The Expanded Bible: New Testament (Paperback) [AMAZON]
    by Thomas Nelson Publishers
    [New Testament sample]

    There’s a rather interesting preface to this version.
    It provides much more than the older Amplified Bible.
    [*] ALTERNATE: A different translation possibility that takes the meaning of the original language in a different direction that the base text does. Alternates provide information not possible in a standard translation, which must choose between possibilities for its main text. There are signaled by an or within a set of brackets: [or].

    Rob
     

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