Romans 13 and the Founding Fathers

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Aaron, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Scripturally, was the American Revolution just, or was it a rebellion?
     
    #1 Aaron, Jan 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2008
  2. preachinjesus

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    Rebellion...

    Just, well that's a different issue to altogether. I'm not so certain there can be a "just war" classification given to a revolt/rebellion. But that is a deep philosophical discussion. :)
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    Rebellion, period.

    But so were the events that led to Cromwell ruling England.

    And so were the events that led to the French Revolution.

    But that's why this is a fallen world.

    And that's why Christ is the Truth.
     
  4. Ivon Denosovich

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    If one takes the position that govt. can only be legitimate when it protects freedom then it was just. If one's worldview is power=divine mandate, then one would have a lot of splaining to do.
     
  5. pinoybaptist

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    okay, but do you think, as the OP asked, that the American Revolution was scripturally just ?
    (note: I may have affected the thought of the OP with the term scripturally just....if so, please correct, and I apologize).
     
  6. Dale-c

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    I believe it was scripturally just.

    This is actually in principle related to the KJVO argument though.

    It is related in that there is no one specific inspired translation but all translations should be true to the original.

    There is also no one single inspired theocracy on earth these days.

    So who is to say that one government is the God ordained government to the exclusion of all others?

    The colonies saw that England was not obeying Romans 13 and so they separated, by force when needed.
     
  7. Aaron

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    To those who assert the American Revolution was simply rebellion, do you believe there is a point at which the governed may justly resist the government?

    To those who assert the Revolution was just, the same question. What is it that makes a resistance a revolution instead of a rebellion?
     
  8. rbell

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    There are some who believe all revolutions are rebellions and hence wrong.

    If that is the case, then we should all be subject to some dude in a Sumerian city-state...or something like that.
     
  9. Aaron

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    I agree with that. But the question is, was the American Revolution just? In otherwords, were the Founding Fathers correct in invoking the Magesty of Heaven in their cause?
     
    #9 Aaron, Jan 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2008
  10. Ivon Denosovich

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    Yes, I believe it is always God's will for men to rebel against wrongful authority.
     
  11. Alcott

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    If it wasn't just, then the question should be asked, "Where did Europeans who wished to leave their home countries have the right to live?" By the same reasoning it wasn't just for them to live in America because the established authorities in America claimed they did not have that right, so they had to war and defeat them and push them out of their homes. Of ocurse, it must have been just for one group who didn't take part in it-- the Quakers, since they were ordered to leave England, and largely they obeyed the higher powers and left. Ironically, they were persecuted because they rebelled against established authority by rejecting the class system, refusing to take their hats off for noblemen, refusing to swear oaths, and refusing military service.
     
  12. JDale

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    Under the preaching of a number of prominent clergymen -- predominently Congregationalists and Presbyterians -- most of the Founding Fathers found justification for the Revolution based on Romans 13:4, in which one phrase says that "he [government] is the minister to you for good..." However, Great Britain was NOT a minister to the Colonies for good -- high taxes, no representation, forfeiture and seizure of property without due process, imprisonment without trial, quartering soldiers in private homes by force, confiscation of firearms.... Thus, rebellion, in their eyes, was justified.

    This is also the primary reason when they constructed a federal government, they gave the People a Constitution -- so that the supreme law of the land was NOT men (whether a King, a President or an oligarchy like Congress) by LAW -- written LAW. Thus, all officials to this day swear to protect and defend THE CONSTITUTION (not the King!) -- even though politicians don't usually mean it.

    It would do good for Americans to relearn this lesson -- the Constitution trumps the "Laws" of any man or group of men -- including our politicians today. When laws are passed today that clearly violate the letter and intent of the Founders, in the spirit of those same Founders we have the right to ignore -- or even defy -- that law.
     
  13. JDale

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    Incidentally, there are those American Christians who believe the American Revolution was not justified, and was indeed a rebellion against Godly authority. If they are logical and obedient in that case, they should appeal to the British Queen and ask to be repatriated as subjects of the realm -- and should worl to that end here in this country.
     
  14. Aaron

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    I agree, J.
     

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