Romans 13, Do Americans have to submit to the president?

After reading comments by PL, it is no wonder that the Ten Commandments are being taken out of court houses and the bible taken out of the schools and the prayer not being allowed in schools, at ball games, or council meetings.

Bart and PJ I think we are beating a dead horse with some of these guys. Maybe someday their eyes will open.

 

Thats it JM, if you can't answer a question, it is always wise to make disparaging remarks about those who disagree.

 

I think he has answered a lot of questions with his last post.

 

Therein lies the difference. An ancient heresy called "pietism" has taken over much of today's church. It teaches a false dichotomy between the "spiritual" and "temporal", reflected in the opinions of some here that the Bible does not speak to many of the issues that we face. It is the same teaching that led to monasteries, and in some ways has more in common with Hinduism than with Christianity. Some have adopted it lock, stock, and barrel.

 

I didn't say anything that addresses any of that. But are you somehow under the mistaken impression that having unbelievers say the words of a prayer is going to change their lives??? The 10 Commandments in public places has not done a thing to stem the tide of secularism and crime. They have been in courthouses for years with no effect on the behavior of the citizens. Prayer is allowed in school. Any one can pray any time they want. But I am not sure why you think that having an unsaved person lead in prayer over an intercom is the solution to the problems.

And I can't help but notice that you still have not rightfully used Scripture to make your points. You place the gospel in an American context apparently wihthout stopping to think that it has nothign to do with that. There are faithful believers the world over who have never known the freedoms of America and they are still fruitful in ministry. Maybe if we quit depending on the government, we will turn back to God.

I have come to the conclusion that the difference between you and I is the view of SCripture that we take. I take a very high view of Scripture that you do not seem to share. It is not my eyes that need to be open. They already are.

 

You maybe right. I look at God's word as infallible errant. The Old KJB is been tried and tested and blessed. I believe the whole thing.

 

As do I.

I agree. Many modern versions are now filling the role for modern believers, just as the KJV did for generations. We can praise God that is word is still living and active in lives, even in teh 21st century. That is why we don't have to depend on government.

 

Hey Poncho, would you like an answer to your question from an unbiased layperson who only knows basic history and government? I am going to give you the simple answer and then explain why I think it is true.
The answer is yes. First of all the president does not make law. He might put the final signature to it but law is made in the legislative branch of the government. I believe as citizens of this country, where we elect our officials, that we are to obey the laws of the land. There are many laws that I do not agree with and I hope people will be voted into office that will change them but I must still obey them. There are many laws now that allow things contrary to what the Bible teaches but these laws do not require me to disobey God's word. An example of this would be abortion. It is legal but you are not required to abort.
If a law is ever passed that requires me to disobey God than I will not follow that law. The consequence is that I may be punished under the law of the country but I would not be punished by God. If I obeyed the law I would be punished by God and not the country. I prefer the first choice.
I have seen several interesting views on this subject and it reminded me why I quit visiting this board. I love my country and my flag and I feel blessed to live here but these are not things that God has promised to give us. Some of the people on this forum make it sound like Christianity cannot survive in this country if the government does not support it, or that the government can somehow end Christianity with a stroke of the pen. The constitution might fail, the government might fail but praise God Christianity will never fail.
There have been many heroes in our country since it began and many of them were Christians but that has nothing to do with what the Bible teaches. Yes it is true the governments in Jesus' day were differant than ours but that makes no differance either. There are many forms of government today and Christianity exists each one whether they like it or not.
Here is a biased opinion. If this country would elect nothing but Republicans, Christianity would come back to the government and schools within 10 years. If we elect nothing but Democrats, Christianity will be totally eliminated from government and schools within 4 years. I know who I am voting for.