Romans 5.20

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, May 4, 2003.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
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    What would you say the following verse means?

    What I mean is, do you believe this scripture is spoken toward salvation by grace or toward a licentiousness to abuse grace?

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  2. Eladar

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    Romans 6:1-3
    I think Paul just answered your question.
     
  3. Frogman

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    Then, how is there a question concerning perserverance?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  4. Eladar

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    I don't really know what you are trying to ask. If it has to do with OSAS, good question. I don't get people who teach that our fruits are meaningless.
     
  5. Larry in Tennessee

    Larry in Tennessee
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    What I mean is, do you believe this scripture is spoken toward salvation by grace or toward a licentiousness to abuse grace?</font>[/QUOTE]I think anyone who would say that God's grace gives them a liscence to sin should seriously question if they have truly been saved by His grace.

    Love in Christ,
    Larry
     
  6. KenH

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    That there is no sin that is larger than God's grace. As proof the apostle Paul called himself the "chief of sinners". If the worst sinner can be saved, then anyone can be saved.

    Grace triumphs over sin!
     
  7. Grasshopper

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    The Reign of Grace


    Romans 5:20-21


    Because of Adam's sin God rightfully and justly condemns all mankind as sinners (5:12). But the eternal, sovereign purpose of God is for His Son, Jesus Christ, to actually redeem many sinners from throughout the world by becoming a cursed substitute on their behalf (5:8). He died enduring the wrath of His Father due every sin of the people His Father had given Him, and justifies every single one of them through His obedience (5:18). He does not make salvation possible or potential for any sinner, but actually and eternally saves many sinners through His obedience (5:19). For all of eternity God shall be praised for the "glory of His grace in that He has made us (the elect) accepted in the beloved one (Jesus Christ)" (Ephesians 1:6). So our salvation is entirely dependent upon, and due unto, the work of God through Jesus Christ. This is what Paul calls "the reign of grace" (5:21).

    The reign of grace insures that nobody can glory in God's presence.
    Most people believe God gives law to urge people to become righteous by their own obedience to it. But Paul says the law "enters in order that" sin might abound. In other words, the law reveals to us in greater detail our inherent corruptness. The law drives us to another method of acceptance before God. If we can't justify ourselves, then God must justify us by His grace through the righteousness of Jesus Christ. This grace gift of Christ's righteousness is the only righteousness that God accepts.
    The reign of grace insures that more sinners shall be saved than condemned.
    There is a revealed decree of God that "mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13). God has chosen to save many more sinners (for the praise of the glory of His grace) than He has chosen to condemn (as a revelation of His holiness). I say this because:
    In Scripture, heaven, compared to hell, is a much larger place.
    Heaven is called a "sea" (Revelation 4:6), hell is called a "lake" (Revelation 20:14), heaven is called a "kingdom" (Matthew 13:11), hell is called a "prison" (Revelation 20:7), heaven is called a "mansion" (John 14:2), hell is called a "pit" (Revelation 20:3). The people of heaven are called like "the stars in the sky" and the "sands of the seashore" (Hebrews 11:13). The redeemed of God are out of "every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Revelation 4:9). The people of God are the chosen many, not few.
    The parables of Jesus teach us more sinners shall be saved than lost.
    In Matthew 13 Jesus gives us four parables that illustrate for us more shall be saved than lost: The parables of the soils, the tares, the mustard seed, and the leaven. These four parables teach us that though the gospel of grace might start out spreading slowly in this world, the longer time goes by, the numbers of people converted shall increase exponentially until grace reigns "throughout."
    The church of Jesus Christ has held this view for many centuries.
    I have always felt that the Scripture taught that grace shall reign numerically over sin and death, but thought I must be in the minority. However, Dr. Ella has reminded me that my position is one that has been dearly held by the church.
    The early church fathers, even under intense persecution, trusted in the promises of God's reign of grace over sin and death. (See "Writings of the Early Church Fathers").
    The British Church, the European Church and the Early American Church all held to the super abounding reign of the gospel of grace.
    Ian Murray's excellent book "The Puritan Hope" documents the beliefs of the Puritans in their understanding of this blessed hope.
    Dr. John Gill, the great Baptist theologian of Great Britain was one day having tea with young Augustus Toplady, when Toplady informed him that he had translated Zanchius' book on "Predestination" from Latin into English. Gill encouraged Toplady to get his translation published, which he did, and all of the English speaking church enjoyed this classic work on predestination that proposed God's electing, saving grace was to the "mass of the greatest of sinners." Toplady was 15 years old.
    William Cowper, the great English theologian and poet of the 18th Century wrote several poems (one was four volumes in length) that spoke of God's reign of grace in choosing to save more than He chose to condemn. He said he based his belief on Scripture and the writings of Jonathan Edwards, the great American theologian. These five examples are just a few of many.
    Let me now give you the three major objections to this view of "the reign of grace."
    The Bible says, "Wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leads to destruction, but strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matthew 7:13-14). Does this mean there are a chosen few?
    This verse emphasizes the wide gate and the narrow gate, meaning there are many ways that lead to destruction only one way that leads to life.
    The few that find the narrow gate are the few in the early days of the gospel, but as the years roll, thousands, then millions, then tens of millions find it.
    Romans 5:19 teaches us that "many" are justified by Christ, not a few.
    I look around me and see that the world is worse and worse.
    Really? It seems to me that the advancements in this world through the gospel are absolutely amazing. Sure the U.S. may be in a state of moral decline, but the Spirit of God is moving throughout the world, and will again in the U.S.
    But what about all the books in the "Left Behind" series?The Devil reigns.
    I simply say those books are really good fiction, not really good Bible.
    The reign of grace insures that you will be saved for eternity.
    "That as sin has reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 5:21).
    Why is it that you and I will be saved unto eternal life? What assurance do we have that this life we have is not temporary (like Adam's)? Simply this: God not only declares us righteous, He makes us righteous! The righteousness that we receive from God, by faith, is the imputed righteousness of Christ, and it is real! You are as secure in grace as righteousness is secure in Jesus Christ.
    You say, "But if I believed that, then I would continue in sin!" (Romans 6).
    You ask, "But if I am really righteous, why do I struggle with sin?" (Romans 7).
    You then shout, "Jesus Christ has made me free!" (Romans 8:2).

    http://www.emmanuel-baptist.org/sermons/Romans/Romans33.htm
     
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    I think Rom 5:2o is talking about grace in salvation ... that no matter how great the sin, the grace is greater. In chapter 6, Paul begins to address an anticipated conclusion, that is this grace is so great, we can sin all we want. Paul teaches that teh great grace that provided salvation is not a license to sin. However, 5:20 addresses salvation; 6:1 addresses the license.
     
  9. Eladar

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    Romans 7:21

    But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
     
  10. romanbear

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    Post removed for reasons stated elsewhere.

    [ May 05, 2003, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  11. Frogman

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    What I mean is, do you believe this scripture is spoken toward salvation by grace or toward a licentiousness to abuse grace?</font>[/QUOTE]I think anyone who would say that God's grace gives them a liscence to sin should seriously question if they have truly been saved by His grace.

    Love in Christ,
    Larry
    </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Larry in Tennssee, this was the reason for my posting this. I agree with KenH and Pastor Larry here. I have had Arminians to accuse me as a Baptist believing in perserverance that I believe this scripture provides me a license to sin. And the reason I have posted the scripture is because it has perplexed me for some time and I have not been able to understand it, yet the same explanation that Pastor Larry has given and I believe Ken H and if others,forgive me for not posting your name, I have recently been shown.

    This scripture has nothing to do with the saved individual but is only speaking of the lost sinner, and says where sin abounded grace did much more abound.

    Thanks Romanbear for your response as well, but I fail to see how this topic discontinues my being a Calvinist? You can explain this however.

    This is the beauty of it; though I have in the past been unable to understand this scripture I have recently been given the light to see its simplicity and I just wanted to share it. The praise belongs to the Lord for all.

    To read this and argue it from the standpoint that a person saved by Grace would abuse that Grace expecting the blessing of more Grace is to fail to understand Grace. But to know the simplicity of this passage that I am saved by Grace regardless of the depth of my sin, or the darkness of my heart is a blessing to me. But the scripture discontinues speaking after I have been made a partaker; because then I am to grow in Grace, not abuse it.

    I was so blessed that I thought I would share the fact with you guys that Frogman did learn something.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     

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