Romans 7:14-25

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jan 20, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,116
    Likes Received:
    206
    Those who teach living above sin must interpret this passage by Paul to speaking of Paul as a lost religious man.

    Those who deny eternal security of the believer must interpret this passage to be speaking of Paul as alost religous man.

    However, this passage speaks directly of the saved man's struggle with sin for many contextual reasons.

    1. The description of the lost man and sin is found in Romans 1:18-3:23

    2. This descrption is part of the answer of the question in Romans 6:1 concerning a saved man and sin:


    Roman 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

    The answer of this question falls under the same repeated question:

    a. "Know ye not" - Rom. 6:2-15
    b. "Know ye not" - Rom. 6:16-23
    c. "Know ye not" - Rom. 7:1-8:13

    The question in Romans 6:1 concludes with the following answer:

    Rom. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.



    3. There is a change from the past tense in Romans 7:5-13 to the present tense Romans 7:14-25


    4. The man in Romans 7:14-25 "hates" sin and "delights" in the law of God in direct contradiction to the lost man described by Christ in John 3:19-20 and the carnal mind in Romans 8:7.

    Rom. 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

    Rom. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

    5. The lost man has no "inward man" that "delights in the law of God" but rather the opposite - "is at ENMITY with God and is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD AND NEITHER INDEED CAN BE" - Rom. 8:7


    6. The man in this context is WILLING to do right but does not have POWER to right:

    Rom. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    7. The man in this context denies that he is responsible for the origin of evil but rather it originate from indwelling sin in one aspect of his person:

    Rom. 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
    19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
    20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
    22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
    25 So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    8. This man idenitifes one aspect of his being which has not yet been REDEEMED from sin and from whence SIN not only originates within him ["my members" "this body of death"] but operates as a "law" "the flesh"

    14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
    17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


    When Paul says "I am carnal sold under sin" he makes it clear he is talking about one aspect of his nature called "the flesh" while emphatically denying that what is sold under sin refers to "I" and his "inward man".

    The conclusion to Paul's question in Romans 6:1 is that the child of God does not "continue in sin" for the following reasons:

    1. What we have received (justification/regeneration) symbolized in Baptism. Baptism symbolically declares us to have died to sin by identifying us with his death and burial and have risen with Christ in regenerative life "that we might no longer serve sin" - Rom. 6:2-6 - Hence, we are judicially "free" (justified) from sin by Christ's death (v. 7) that we might live with Christ in serving God (v. 8) no more legally under the dominion of sin (v. 9). Having the resurrected life of Christ we should reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to God under his servants under grace rather than under law (vv. 10-15). Responsibility to implement what we have received by grace.

    2. Justified persons are no longer the servants of sin but servants of Righteousness by regenerative life - Rom. 6:16-23

    3. Justified persons are no longer under the law but that does not they are free to sin - Romans 7:1-5 - nor does that mean the law is sin - Romans 7:6-13 - nor does that mean we live without or live above sin - Romans 7:14-25

    4. Justified persons do not continue in sin under condemnation because of the Indwelling Spirit of God - Rom. 8:1-9. By the power of the indwelling Spirit of God the power of indwelling sin can be put to death and therefore we are not debtors to sin to continue in sin - Rom. 8:10-13.



    CONCLUSION:

    1. The body of the saved man has not been regenerated and is still unredeemed - the flesh - members - and is subject to physical death - corruption due to sin - thus "sold under sin" and must die or be transformed.

    2. Sin dwells in "the flesh" of regenerated persons and operates as a "law" that is in active opposition to the inward regenerative nature of man.

    3. The regenerated man "delights" in the law of God, has the presence of "will" for Good but lacks POWER to conquer indwelling sin and always loses in a power struggle.

    4. The answer to indwelling sin and its power is not the "will" of man but the power of the indwelling Spirit of God.

    5. Regenerated persons do not "continue in sin" although they do sin, and always will lose to sin if they operate by the power of their own will, but they do not "continue in sin" because the Holy Spirit within them provides not merely power to express the regenerative life of Christ but God works in them both to will and to do of His good pleasure according to His good purpose (Rom. 8:26-28).
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2012
  2. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0
    So many Christians say that in Romans 7, Paul was speaking of his life after Jesus saved him, that he could not stop sinning, that he could not do good, that he was a wretched man! You have to be kidding me. I can hardly believe that people actually believe Apostle Paul was speaking of himself as a sinner AFTER Jesus saved him. That is utterly absurd. It is downright ridiculous. However, most all people easily believe Paul is speaking of himself after Jesus saved him, because they themselves do not stop sinning. Let us look to the passage…
    Romans 7

    Released From the Law, Bound to Christ

    1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?

    Here Paul is speaking of the Old Testament law. The law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives.

    2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

    Paul is explaining how those who are under the Old Testament law are not sinning by now obeying Jesus, because through Jesus they die to the flesh.


    4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

    The law telling us not to do this and not to do that…it aroused passions in us, and we sinned.

    The Law and Sin

    7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

    13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

    14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

    Here Paul is still speaking about the law! He is speaking of being under the law before living by the Spirit. Paul says plainly, “I am unspiritual.” How do Christians get that Paul is speaking of himself AFTER Jesus saved him? After Jesus saved him Paul was spiritual, and he lived according to the Spirit. So then, how have Christians allowed themselves to confuse what this passage is saying to us? They have a defeatist attitude toward sin for sure.

    18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

    Paul is still speaking of himself before Jesus saved him. Surely, when Jesus saved Paul, good now dwells in him! Paul would not say after Jesus saved him and gave him the Holy Spirit that good does not dwell in him. Do you really believe that saved Paul says he has the desire to do what is good, but he cannot carry it out? Do you really believe that after Jesus saved Paul, that Paul could not carry out any good? I hope you consider more in what you believe.


    19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

    Do you really believe that after Jesus saved Paul, that he did not do good but rather he did evil? Do you really believe that Paul is speaking of his life AFTER Jesus saved him? Do you really believe that Paul, having died to sin, still has sin living in him? That is nonsense! You have allowed yourself this benefit of blindness to this passage.


    21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

    Paul is speaking of being under the Old Testament law, before Jesus saved him!


    23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.

    Paul is still explaining the effects of having the law without the Spirit!


    24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

    Do you really believe Paul is calling himself a wretched man after Jesus saved him? No way had Paul spoke of himself in such a way after Jesus saved him. Paul asks, “Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?” Jesus saved Paul from his body of death! Through life through the Spirit, we are no longer slaves to sin! Read Romans chapter 8. In Romans chapter 8, you will learn about life for Paul and all true believers.

    Calvinists claim that humans cannot believe in God and do not try to obey Him. However, we can see that Calvinism is not true when we read how Paul, before Jesus saved him, wanted to do good and obey God’s laws, but instead kept sinning. See also Isaiah 64:5, here we also learn that there are those who gladly do right and who remember God’s ways, but they continued to sin against them. These scriptures show us there are those who do want to do right but cannot stop sinning, we need a Savior, and that is what God did, He sent us the Savior Jesus Christ. We who believe and obey receive the Holy Spirit. We live by the Spirit and can stop sinning.
     
    #2 Moriah, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2012
  3. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    One of Paul's clearer statements teaching that we will always be pestered by our sin nature. Sin contaminates all human activity and institutions including the church on earth. Someone would have to work hard to misunderstand it.

    Romans 7:14-25
    King James Version (KJV)
    14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

    16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

    17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

    20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

    22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

    23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

    25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
     
  4. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0
    In Romans 7, Paul is talking about before Jesus saved him.
     
  5. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >In Romans 7, Paul is talking about before Jesus saved him.

    And how did you determine that? What in the text demonstrates your conclusion?
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    728
    Wrong again..each and everytime;
    that I am...he does not say ...that I was....stop teaching falsehood...learn more !
     
  7. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paul is talking about before Jesus saved him. Paul says, "Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!" GOD SAVED PAUL. DO YOU STILL BELIEVE PAUL IS STILL WRETCHED?
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    728
    Moriah...you are over thinking and missing the point of the contrast;

    22for I delight in the law of God according to the inward man,

    only a believer delights in God's law


    23and I behold another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin that [is] in my members.

    24A wretched man I [am]! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?

    25I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord; so then, I myself indeed with the mind do serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.


    <<


    <


    =
    =
     
  9. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are Jews who delighted in God’s law, but they could NOT stop sinning. There were people who remembered God’s ways and gladly did right, but they could NOT stop sinning. See Isaiah 64:5. Are you saying that all the Jews in the Old Testament times had the Holy Spirit living in them?
    Do you really believe that after Jesus saved Paul, that Paul says plainly, “I am unspiritual.” How do you get that Paul is speaking of himself AFTER Jesus saved him? After Jesus saved him Paul was spiritual, and he lived according to the Spirit. Surely, when Jesus saved Paul, good now dwells in him! Paul would not say after Jesus saved him and gave him the Holy Spirit that good does not dwell in him. Do you really believe that saved Paul says he has the desire to do what is good, but he cannot carry it out? Do you really believe that after Jesus saved Paul, that Paul could not carry out any good? Do you really believe that after Jesus saved Paul, that he did not do good but rather he did evil? Do you really believe that Paul is speaking of his life AFTER Jesus saved him? Do you really believe that Paul, having died to sin, still has sin living in him?

    Answer those questions!
     
  10. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you really believe Paul never sinned after he was saved??
     
  11. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe what Paul says. After Jesus saved Paul, Paul's body WAS PAUL'S SLAVE. So that he would not be disqualified for the prize.
     
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    You didn't answer my question. Do you believe Paul never sinned after he was saved? Yes or no.
     
  13. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0

    You never answered any of my questions. Tell me first, do you believe that Paul, AFTER Jesus saved him did Paul have in him every kind of coveting? Did sin deceive him after Jesus saved him? After Jesus saved him, was Paul not spiritual? Was Paul a slave to sin, that he did not understand what he do, that what he wanted to do he did not do, but what he hated to do he did? After Jesus saved Paul, did good not dwell in him? Was Paul not able to carry good out, that he does not good but the evil he does not want to do he keeps on doing, that sin lives in him?

    Answer my questions first.


    8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

    13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

    14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
    18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

    19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
    23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.
     
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hate this childish behavior of "answer me first". What does that prove other than you are unable to defend your incorrect doctrine?

    But I will answer you. Paul says "for in my inner being I delight in God's law". This is a saved person speaking. No unbeliever delights in God's law. The unbeliever hates God law because it convicts him of his sin which he enjoys.
    Paul loves God with his "inner being", his spirit which has been redeemed by God. But in his flesh sin still remains and it wars against his mind/spirit which wants to please God. This is something we all have to deal with until the body/flesh is also redeemed and changed to an incorruptible/sinless body.
    That is what I believe because I believe Paul's words.

    Now, answer my question. Do YOU believe that Paul never sinned after he was saved? Yes or no.
     
  15. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0
    I knew you could not answer my question. Your beliefs are false. Those who are quick to believe Paul was still the worst practicing sinner after Jesus saved him because that is probably what they are still.
     
  16. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,116
    Likes Received:
    206
    No, her response is correct and you sir are teaching absolute falsehood and it is easy to show.

    First, you completely ignore that twice Paul restricts the rise of sin within him to his flesh, my members in contrast to "I" who delight in the law of God after the inward man.

    18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    Therefore Paul makes a distinction between "I" and "in my flesh" or "in my members" but YOU DO NOT in your argumentation.

    Twice he denies that it is "I" who sins:

    17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


    Second, Lost Jews may delight in the law but that is not what Paul said. What he said was "I delight in the law of God AFTER THE INWARD MAN" whereas the inward man or carnal mind of the lost man is at "ENMITY with God and is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD and neither indeed CAN BE" - Rom. 8:7.

    Third, you confuse verses 7-13 with verses 14-25 as the former is found in the PAST tense whereas the latter is found in the PRESENT tense.

    Fourth, Paul writing to the churches of Galatians, saved people, applies this same internal warfare to them:

    17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    Last, Paul restricts "no good thing" to "the flesh" not to "I" or the "inward man" and as you should know "the flesh" or "my members" of saved persons has not been born again (Jn. 3:6) and will die due to "corruption" as Paul speaking of saved persons explicitly states in 1 Cor. 15:53:

    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    The "flesh" or "members" is where he says sin dwells and it is that "corruptible" flesh where there is "no good":

    18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    When a child of God walks "AFTER" the flesh is when sin is manifested in their life. If that was not possible then it would not be possible for a saved person to sin as sin is not a result of a child of God walking "AFTER" the Spirit. - Think about it. The child of God is not "in" the flesh but "in" the Spirit but they can and often do walk "AFTER" the flesh.

    Even though the child of God lives "IN" the Spirit they do not always "walk" in the Spirit else Paul would not have to exhort them to do so:


    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    So yes, whenever Paul walked "AFTER" the flesh and did not "walk" in the Spirit he sinned just like YOU DO and if you say you are without Sin John says you are a liar and the truth is not IN YOU:

    8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


    Paul flatly denies he lives above sin or is perfect - Philip. 3:12-14

    12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    If you do not understand what he said, it means HE SINS and therefore does not live above sin. This sin does not originate from his NEW MAN or "INWARD MAN" but originates with his flesh when he walks AFTER the flesh:


    20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
    22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    When a Christian walks AFTER the flesh he is miserable and thus a "WRETCHED MAN" but lost people HATE THE LIGHT and LOVE DARKNESS

    Jn. 3:19......and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    If you think you have already been fully delivered "FROM THIS BODY OF DEATH" then you believe your body will never die and that is absurd. That victory comes at physical death or transformation of the body for a child of God. The temporal victory is when we "mortify the deeds of the body" by yeilding to the indwelling Spirit of God.
     
    #16 The Biblicist, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2012
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Obedience is not an option nor is it simply a good suggestion.


    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
     
  18. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have ripped this right out of context.
    Romans 6:16 is speaking of being in slavery to sin BEFORE salvation.
    Verse 17 begins with "but" (always indicating a change) God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

    This isn't about obeying commandments, but obeying the GOSPEL! Their belief and obedience to the gospel set them free from the PENALTY of sin and gave them the power to live righteously.
    But,
    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8)

    If you claim you never sin, you are a liar.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    728
    Good solid post Amy...you understand salvation and sanctification as Paul has descibed it.:wavey::thumbs:
     
  20. Moriah

    Moriah
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,540
    Likes Received:
    0

    If you think that you are going to convince me that Paul and all saved are not more than just conquerors, then you are sadly mistaken.

    Romans 8:37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

    Now go and plainly answer the questions I gave about Paul.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...