Ron Paul Odds Slashed Dramatically: 15 to 1 from 200 to 1

We'll see, won't we ? Prediction; Ron Paul gets about 2-5 % of GOP votes. (And that's generous) The conventional wisdom in cyber-space is Ron Paul supporters have been acting like babies who've had their bottles taken away. I don't expect you to like it, and to be honest, I don't like it, either. Dr. Paul would probably be better off without the kind of spamming that is going on, and without that hateful anti-Christian site prison planet.


Saying Paul supporters have been acting like girl scouts is just not true. And he isn't the only hope for anything. I hate how he's being lifted as our only hope. It's bordering on worship. It's bad craziness.

The bottom line fact is, polls have been spammed, warnings have been given & ignored, and Paul's supporters are hurting him. He will never be president, good or bad, that's just how it is.

 

Proof, proof, proof???

You keep syaing this, but giving no proof.

Just because you continually say something over and over doesn't mean it's true.

Hannity was already making these accusations about Paul supporters before the Fox news poll was halfway through. He, just like you, had no idea what was really causing the vast support for Dr. Paul, and it wasn't spammers.

Personally, I think Giuliani's campaign is full of spammer. His actual ranking is -26%, but that one darn spammer keeps hijacking all the phone interviews.

I wish all you self proclaimed conservatives could get over the fact that a majority of Americans actually agree with Dr. Paul's message.

No offense to him, but you all are beginning to sound like poncho with your "the spammers are coming" conspiracy theories.

 

Didn't FoxNews setup up a text message poll after the first debate that only allowed one vote per phone number? Were all these Ron Paul "spammers" using multiple cell phones to help him win that poll?

Both Ron Paul and Obamma are using the Internet better than any other candidate. This is only the third presidential election since people have started really using the World Wide Web, and the first with broadband widely available, and the Internet is playing a huge role in this election.

I don't expect Ron Paul to win the GOP nomination, the GOP leadership picked their guy Rudy over three years ago, any conservative candidates don't stand a chance with the GOP.

I hope Bloomburg runs like he has stated, with his owns billions to finance his campaign it should make for an interesting election, just think three New York Liberals in one national debate.

I believe Jerome Corsi will be running for the Constitution Party when the GOP finishes getting their Liberal the GOP nomination.

 

If we want to see a third party candidate with a chance to win, this is the election cycle for it, if Guiliani gets the nomination.

All the Libertarian party has to do is convince Thompson to run on their ticket.

Then, the liberal vote would be split between the dems and pubs, instead of the conservative vote being split.

 

But in the USA voting is the means by which God places that person in office. Pray the day does not come when God turns the USA over completely to the reprobate minds!

Vote with God's morals and let the chips fall where they may. I only need worry about my vote counting before God at my judgment. I need not worry if the one elected is a reprobate or not. God is in control! :thumbs:

God Bless!

 

100% agreement. The tired, old reasoning that says "If you vote third party, you are wasting your vote" really means, "I am so attached to a political party, that I would vote for it if the devil himself were running." It is the sign of someone who is very weak in faith, and does not place much value in the meaning of their vote. If enough people would get a backbone and kick the existing two parties out of their comfortable pig's nest, we could start over.

Maybe we should ask it this way. Is my vote so cheap that I will vote for abortionist A over abortionist B to keep party B out of power, or am I going to stand up for what I know is right, and vote for a person who stands for Christian values? We havent seen that kind of person in office lately, have we?

One day we will give account for our votes, and sad to say, I will give account for the last two elections voting for George. Never again.

 

And your point is? That doesn't mean that He wants me to participate in the process. As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure He doesn't. We are strangers in this land. This land is not our home and we have no purpose getting involved in the process. Our focus is to be our home which Scripture tells us is in the heavens.

We are to trust God will put the people in office that furthers His plan and whatever comes our way His grace is sufficient to see us through!

 

Reminds me of the story about the man stranded on his roof top with flood waters rushing and rising around him. He prayed and prayed for the Lord to save him. A boat came by and told him to jump in. He said no I am waiting on my Lord. Another boat came by and he said no again, i am waiting on my Lord. A helocopter came by and he said no I will wait on my Lord, I have prayed. The man drowns and goes to heaven. He says Lord. I prayed for you to save me! The Lord said I sent two boats and a helocopter!

Does the Lord want us to just pray or has He given us these rights to vote and possibly take action to make a difference? What about the story the Lord spoke about telling someone pray ye be warm and fed but sending them off without helping them? What about those babies being murdered everyday in the womb? Could you possibly help them by voting for candidates that would help stop this blood shed? Or should we just pray? What if there would be enough people like you voting, would things then change? What is it, about 40-50% actually vote in this country? I pray that most of them are not Christians without hands and feet.

I believe the scriptures tell us to do good when possible. I believe that participating in voting for a good godly candidate would be ok with our Lord if not expected. Christians ignored RoevWade and look what has happened. I believe God advocates getting involved when possible for the good.

God Bless!

ps. and it might help save your soul at the judgment scales :thumbs:

 

Apples and oranges.

All I see in Scripture is prayer. I see now instruction to get involved in any political process. I see we are to obey the authority that is over us, but I see nowhere that we are to have a part in who that authority is.

What about them?

If someone wants to get rid of their child they are going to have it done whether legal or not. That really is a moot point.

Again that is the only Biblical mandate that I see.

No it wouldn't. That's the whole point. God is going to put in office the EXACT person HE chooses regardless of which candidate I would want. I trust that He will select the people that furthers His plan. He doesn't need my help.

Well I see no Scriptural evidence that it would be acceptable to the Lord. And there is certainly none there that support an expectation.

Well Scripture tells us exactly what we must be doing to have our souls saved at the judgment seat and I don't see voting among the instructions.

If I was going to vote it certainly wouldn't be for a Christian. The reason being is why would I want to put a brother or sister into a government that is under the authority of Satan at this time. I would be doing my brother or sister a HUGE disservice by doing such.

Want to help a brother or sister out? Tell them to get out of politics while the gettin is good

 

You point out the truth. You would also agree that there is no instruction to stay out of politics either, correct? So I cannot say that God wants us to all be in politics and you cannot say that God wants us all to stay out.

A suprisingly cold attitude coming from a child of God. It is in fact a very good point and a good reason to be in politics.

You are not able to say "no" with all certainty. God is going to put in office the exact person HE chooses regardless of my vote, this is true. He doesn't need our help in anything, does He? Then we should not worry about all those babies being slaughtered, if God wants it to stop then He can call fire down from heaven to stop it. I wonder why God stopped Paul in his tracts and called him to be an apostle, surely God did not need Pauls help. Maybe God chooses to use His people to do His will and maybe using His people to vote is one of the ways.

Maybe you just are not looking for any. You won't find what you don't want to see.

Scripture states that deeds will be the focus at the judgment seat of Christ. Is voting not a deed?

If it is under the control of Satan, folks who do not participate in "we the people" have no right to complain about it.

God Bless!

 

I think there are several ways to see that we aren't to be involved in politics. One is we are never instructed to be. Two we are told that we are strangers in this land. This land is not our home. So why would we even want to be involved? Third we are participating in a process of an institution that is under the realm of Satan.

So I think there is plenty of Scriptural support to stay out. Is there a verse that says don't vote. No.

If this is true, which we both now agree that it is. Why do you want to waste your time being involved in a process that you aren't going to have any control over?

No He doesn't. However, He has chosen for us to be involved in some of the processes. We are instructed in these areas through Scripture.

No we shouldn't worry about it. If He wanted it put to a stop He certainly could as you say. There is evil in this world and there is going to be evil in this world until the end of this world's ruler. That's just a fact of the world we live in.

Our fight is not with flesh and blood, but with the principalities and the power of the air. Our fight is not on the physical earth. So while it is TERRIBLY tragic that there are this many babies being killed - and that is what it is - we aren't going to change this through the political system.

There is already laws on the books that say you can't kill people, but that's not stopping anyone.

Of course He didn't need his help. However again we are talking about apples and oranges. Paul wasn't involved in the political process of the day. Paul was spreading the good news.

That's a stretch I'm not willing to make. You are certainly entitled to make it I suppose, but I won't encourage people to make that stretch.

If you have some Scriptural evidence just lay it out.

Sure it is, but if you are wrong about voting and it's not acceptable to God and you have been involved in something you shouldn't have been then it's going to burn in the fire and you may stand to suffer loss.

No one has the right to complain about it whether they are involved or not, because the One you are really complaining about is God, Who put those leaders into place. Now that's something to chew on isn't it .

 

If Ron Paul's supporters are truly hurting him, then I think that is sad, but I think too, that in order to support a candidate, we have to look at what the candidate himself is saying and doing. Ron Paul doesn't necessary have time to "stomp out all the little fires" of what some of his supporters may be saying or doing.

I think most people would acknowledge that most politicians have lost their focus on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, to one degree or another. At least most would agree that there are problems in Washington. Rather than have another politician that would sink into the mire of wasted funds, un-Constitutional programs and spending, Paul presents a refreshingly different image. Basically, I am trying to explain why people say he's the only hope, but I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of it.

The analogy that comes to mind is like someone who's needed glasses for years and didn't know it. They know that there is a little bit of a problem with their vision. But it's not until they get their glasses and put them on for the first time that they realize how bad their vision was to begin with. And then they walk around pointing out to everyone how far away they can stand from a sign and still read it, or continually remark for a few days how clear everything is, to the point of sounding ridiculous, but it doesn't change the fact that they really can see much more clearly.

So with Ron Paul, people know many politicians have lost their focus, but now someone different has come along, someone who truly means what he says when he talks about the importance of following the Constitution. (I have never seen any footage of Ron Paul in which I consider him to be anything but a gentleman in his dealings with others.) So his supporters are like the people who got new glasses. They now see a man who clearly stands for the Constitution, and so now they are telling everyone about it, in an effort to try to get the word out because they understand how great the end result would be if he actually made it into the White House.

And, slightly off-topic, but I just wondered what made prison planet an anti-Christian site? I can understand if you don't like it, or if you'd say you thought the tone of it was overdone, or something specific like that, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I just didn't think it could justifiably be called anti-Christian, especially when they are putting out videos opposing the occult, and both the site owner and the site manager have publicly stated that they are Christians (though I am fully aware of the fact that not everyone who claims to be a Christian truly is).

(Please know that this whole post is meant to be interpreted by the reader as having been written with a calm, explaining-my-side & view type of tone.) And I do wish all readers to have a good day!

 

I used to take this approach to politics, and in some cases I think it may be completely appropriate. Lately, however, I have had to rethink whether or not it is 'right' for Christians to get involved. It is true that we are pilgrims here, but does that truth mean that we cannot make use of whatever means God has given us in this world to effect change? I can point to Joseph who was given the highest authority in Egypt in order to save his family from famine. One can also see Paul using his position as a citizen of Rome.

Acts 22:25-27
25 And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?
26 When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman.
27 Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.

Acts 25:10-11
10 Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.
11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.

I think that we may appeal unto the Constitution without apology, and exercise those freedoms that God has given us. But we will certainly have to account for how we use those freedoms, as with everything else.

 

Again I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. Joseph didn't "seek" this position. It was granted to him for God's purpose.

Of course Paul used his position as a citizen of Rome. However that doesn't not translate into us being involved in the political process. What this would translate into is peacfully protesting outside of an abortion clinic, or going to the state capital on rose day and joining hands with other believers in a silent display of ones stance on the matter. This would be taking advantage of being a citizen of the country in which we are residing.

However voting is going above taking advantage of being a citizen and trying to place "your" influence on the political scene, when God said it is HE that will place the ruler HE wants in those positions. If God is going to place whomever He chooses why do we need to be bothered with the matter?

Politics is not going to change anything. One need just look at the system today. A friend of mine used to say that if a republican is elected they turn into a democrat and if a democrat is elected they turn into a republican meaning that basically nothing of any real substance gets done.

Why don't we just let God handle what He said He was going to handle and put our efforts into the "real" fight, which is not of this physical world?

Again what is the benefit in partaking of something that God is in control over. Here's an example.

Few conservative Christians would have voted or actually did place their vote for Bill Clinton in either race. So therefore what we have is a group of "Christians" that were voting "against" God Himself. God wanted Bill Clinton to be president, despite the person "Christians" voted for or Clinton wouldn't have become president.

So do you think it's going to be a positive situation when Judgment Day comes when people have to answer for why they voted against God? Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

If Hiliary Clinton or Obama or Edwards or whatever Democrat wins the election and conservative Christians vote for the "other" guy do you think that is going to be a positive when they voted against the person God wanted at that time?

If God said He is going to place the leader then I don't need to be concerned with it, because my vote is meaningless. It's useless.

 

America is a unique situation in which the leader is chosen by the people. I certainly don't think it is wrong to not participate in voting, in fact I have never voted previously for precisely the reasons you have presented. I don't vote for the lesser of two evils. But in the event that something or someone worth voting for comes along, I don't see how one can say it is evil because we are trying to influence the government of our city/state/country. What would have happened to Mordechai and the jews if Esther had refused to influence the politics in Shushan?

1 Corinthians 7:21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

If we may be kept free by voting, how can we say it is wrong? I wouldn't bother voting in an election between Rudy McRomney and Hillary Hussein. But if I have a chance to help a man like Ron Paul get in to office, how can I know that it isn't God's will that I vote for him? Now if there is some secret about Ron Paul that I need to know about that would cause me to reconsider supporting him, I pray that God would reveal it to me. Then I will go back to sleep.

 

Do you really think that if God wants Ron Paul to be elected He needs your vote to make it happen?

Again what happens when you place your vote for Ron Paul and someone else wins the election and now you have voted against God's chosen person?

 

I didn't think voting against God's chosen person was a sin. What if I pray for something but then something else happens, did I sin against God's sovereignty? Again, if God wanted to save Mordechai, did He really need Esther? God uses means, and it is patently clear that the means He uses to choose the leaders in the US is elections. What kind of laws do you suppose we would have in this nation if every Christian did not vote or participate in politics out of principle?

 

Might want to reconsider. Praying that something might happen, but praying that the Lord's will be done is different than actively trying to go against God's plan, don't you think?

But again that doesn't mean that His people have to be involved in that process does it?

Again that doesn't really matter. I am thankful for the country that I live in, but should it change God says His grace is sufficient for me.

We didn't see Paul and Peter trying to change the sytem in Rome even though their life was required of them unjustly. They weren't calling for change in the political system. And the Roman system had opportunties for citizens to participate.

Again our fight is not in this political realm. God says He is going to put the leader in place that He wants despite what I think, so again I'm just failing to see the purpose in why I need to be involved in something that God said He's going to take care of.

 

How bout if I vote, but pray that the Lord's will be done anyway? If my vote doesn't matter, I don't see how I could be judged for voting for a godly man. Now if he isn't a godly man, thats a different story.

I think that would be the argument from silence. Since the Bible doesn't tell me to vote, it's wrong to vote. The American form of government doesn't get addressed much in the bible. We just have to apply the scriptures as we see fit, and make sure we aren't violating any scriptural principles. I see your side, I think we will have to agree to disagree on it.

 

The Bible does tell us to obey our government, support its laws and officials. It seems to me with that admonition, with most countries around the world past and present not having the right to vote, if it is not a sin , it seems like it ought to be to squander that right.

Not only exercise that right, but I believe we will be held accountable for the votes we cast on a secular basis vs a spiritual basis. The votes that haunt me the most are the one for Jimmy Carter in 1976 and George Bush in 2000 and 2004. The votes for Nixon do not even bother me like those three.

2008 will be a test of character, I think. Will most Christians vote for an abortionist like Giuliani or a flip flopper like Romney with no moral bearing to beat whichever liberal democrat, or will they vote their convictions and turn to a Godly third party candidate?