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Discussion in 'Politics' started by leesw, Jan 3, 2008.
I wonder why he finds a border fence offensive?
Here's the interview with John Stossel
Libertarians aren't about fencing people in or out. There are other ways to secure the borders.
Why aren't Libertarians in favor of fencing people in or out?
Because it's just another attempt at treating the symptoms. The answer is to cure the deseases that are killing us. Big government and globalization.
I myself don't have a problem with a border fence and would like to see one put up. But it's a short term fix. In the longrun we need to do as the Dr. ordered. Limited constitutional government.
The only "FENCE" we need is to stop ALL financial benefits to non-citizens ie medical care, food stamps, welfare, and ect.
I don't have a problem with folks coming over and WORKING - I have a problem with them taking MY money.
I agree. Imagine being able to actually keep your own labor and property to do with as you see fit. What a concept!
Funny, fences work in both directions,they keep people out true enough. They also keep people in,try telling those in East Germany that the Berlin wall was keeping the west Germans out ,they will tell you not so,it kept us in. I say no wall "i just may want to get out"!
What a great device to allow control,"build a wall to keep them out"
"God please open their eyes that they may see,and their ears that they may hear."
What good is a fence anyway if it's built by "elected" CFR members who are advised by CFR members who have CFR friends that own the major media to hawk their wares and keep their secrets? These people think national sovereignty is a desease. Read what Jerome Corsi has been writting, listen to Lou Dobbs, read the documents, Building A North American Community (CFR), Read what Robert Pastor and Richard Haas (Huckabee's foreign policy "advisor") has written. READ THE U.S. CONSTITUTION!!! We're not the slaves we're the masters.
The whole idea is to flood the USA with immigrants. They did the same thing with EU members states.Britain is doing the same. Flood us with immigrants balkanize the population pour in cheap foreign trade goods, outsource jobs and manufacturing, merge our laws, economies and military with Canada and Mexico in other words, Their going to harmonize America to death then send in the globotroops to keep us all in line.
So what good is a fence going to do without a man like Ron Paul (not a CFR member nor advised by CFR members) to take the country out of the hands of the global power elite and the little sock puppet politicians that are all either CFR members or advised by CFR members or CFR members advised by other CFR members that see the USA as the last obstacle to their grand vision of a supranational socialist world government, and give it back to we the people?
So what good is a fence anyway...without a Ron Paul presidency?
A fence is not needed if you want a one-world government.
However, in order to protect our national sovereignty, we need a strong national defense - Border Fence included.
I am not opposed to people immigrating into this country (We ARE a country of immigrants), I am opposed to people immigrating into this country ILLEGALLY!!!
I agree that we do need some new policies in place in regards to immigration. There needs to be a better, more streamlined process to getting people through the immigration process; but if you cannot control who comes into this country and who leaves this country, you cannot maintain ANY FORM of immigration policy.
Legislation is useless without the means to enforce it.
I do not claim to have all of the answers, but here are some things that I believe needs to be in place.
1. We need to BUILD THE FENCE. - We have to be able to control who comes in and who leaves. There must be specified gates through which people come and go.
2. We need to document every single person crossing the border - Right now, we have no way of knowing if a person is coming to pick heads of lettuce or if he is coming to blow heads of people away.
3. We have to begin on every level of law enforcement (Border Patrol, State Police, County Sheriffs, City Police, and any others) to find and deport ILLEGAL aliens back to their country of origin.
4. We have to impose (AND ENFORCE SEVERELY) fines (and/or other legal actions) on companies and individuals who hire and harbor illegal aliens.
Only after securing our borders completely, can we begin to implement other legislation that will allow such things as a guest worker program.
Your Friend and Servant,
You know of course that it costs money to send them back where they came from. Why don't we just shoot them all? That would be cheaper.
OK, I don't want to kill anyone but I said that to make a point. As long as they continue to want to come to the US we are fighting a loosing battle. They will keep coming even if we send them back and they will climb or cut through the fence. Unless we make it unactractive for them to come in the first place, take away the government benefits and penalize employers so that their job opportunities are taken away. Then we won't have to send them home, they will stay home.
Isn't that what Ron Paul is suggesting?
That is exactly why this battle needs to be fought on several fronts. We need to do everything we can to combat this.
We need to make it unattractive for illegal aliens to come to this country, while at the same time giving the proper benefits to those who come LEGALY.
We need to make it unattractive for employers to hire illegal aliens (fines and/or imprisonment).
And we need to build the fence to keep out the terrorists who are not coming to work or do anything other than to destroy America. If we implement all of the policies that will allow guest workers and make it unattractive to those who are working illegally, that still will not solve the problem of people being able to cross the border for other reasons. We need to be able to SECURE THE BORDER. If there is a better way to do that than building the fence, I haven't heard of it.
Because confession is good for the soul and in this case the soil...
I'm pro-immigrant, legal or otherwise. The nation was founded on law breakers and legal immigrants turned illegal. None of we anchor babies have ancestors that left a paper trail w/ Immigration Services-- seems unfair to demand the same of others. The only reasonable complaint I've heard against open borders is the additional cost of providing govt services, but that's hardly the fault of immigrants. Arguably, nothing our government does wrong can be pegged on a group of people ineligible to vote or hold office. Besides, if we deported every demographic the govt was running a deficit on, where would we put all the white people?
FWIW, I'm both white myself and a US citizen.
Now thousands of illegals march openly in our streets shouting slogans in spanish and carrying Mexican flags. They don't want to be Americans. They want everything America has to offer but they are unwilling to become citizens and take on the responsibilities of American citizens.
Matter of fact their government and media (owned and controlled by the same 5 or 6 conglomerated transnational media corporations that bring us "all the news that's fit to print" in the USA) are the ones teaching them how to sneak across the border and telling them the American south west "rightfully belongs to them".
What that means is the "power elite" who have no national loyalties want our population balkanized. The one worlders are using immigration to divide and conquer the USA in order to make it easier to merge into a supranational socialist government just as they did with the European states prior to the formation of the EU. Next step here in the USA is the NAU and NAFTA super highway. It's just more elite sponsored Problem Reaction Solution.
As an aside, I too used to feel strongly about kicking "them" out so I'm NOT accusing anyone who still feels that way as being racist or bigoted. (I had the fortunate experience of gravitating from Michael Savage to Any Rand.)
Stop rewarding illegal aliens for breaking the law and they'll go home on their own.
You have a point... sorta.
The government isn't the primary reward-giver in this scenario, the free market is. And economically, virtually all consumers directly benefit from illegals.
Except for the one fly in the ointment...there is no "free market". The market is controlled and manipulated from the top down. For that matter so is information. Or, it was until the internet came along. Boy do they ache to control that free flow of information!
Who is Any Rand?
Are you talking about Anyn Rand? Do you think Atlas is about to schrug?
Do you think that Ms. Rand would not have had a problem with illegal immigrants? I do.
Yes I want to be kind,but they need to go home,stay mexican that is the desire of most,and bring about change in their own country via revolution if nessesary.
Nothing is worth having if it isn't worth keeping,and facts don't disappear when they are ignored.......
Who is Anyn Rand?
Are you talking about Ayn Rand? :laugh:
And do any of you know how easy it is to cut through or climb a fence? You act as if it is a panacea to immigration control. It isn't.