Saints Praying for Us?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by DeclareHim, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    0
    What about Saints praying for us? What about us being able to pray(request) that they intercede for us on our behalf before God? Those who tend to believe this: RCC, EOC, believe these verses in Revelation 8:3-4 is speaking of how Saints are praying for us.

     
  2. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    0
    (I'm playing devil's advocate).
     
  3. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe this to be an occulting and distracting doctrine...

    As long as it's been brought up, though...

    Here are two verses which are both the proof text for and against it...

    Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

    I do not believe the cloud of witnesses is the local church or even the World around us because of the "Therefore" referring to the dissertation preceeding...

    Namey the hall of faith... All those Heroes are dead and gone... Are, saints...

    Heb 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    So we have a cloud of witnesses?

    That doesn't mean they are our focus...
    Jesus *is* to be our focus...

    Hey, I like to go to the "Head Guy"...

    If they want to add several layers of "Red Tape" to their prayer... More power to 'em...

    Mike Sr.
     
  4. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    As long as they are still alive, I don't mind them praying for me, Saint DeclareHim.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    The one thing the EOC and RCC overlooks in the passages in Revelation is that the saints are praying on behalf of the church at large, asking God to bring about His promised judgement. I have never understood why people are so afraid to go to the source.

    Along the lines of Jim's statement there is nothing wrong with asking living people to pray for you, but there is no indication the glorified saints can even hear us.
     
  6. nate

    nate
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Even if the glorified Saints can pray for you why would one go through them rather than directly to God.
    In Christ,
    Nate

    "Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!"
     
  7. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems questionable at best to me. Why would you want a saint to pray for you? I do enjoy studying about the Church fathers and other saints. But I agree there isn't enough Scriptural evidence to support this doctrine.
     
  8. riverm

    riverm
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then why should we ask any Christian brother or sister to pray for us when we can ask Jesus directly? If the mere fact that we can go straight to Jesus proves that we should ask no Christian in heaven to pray for us then it would also prove that we should ask no Christian on earth to pray for us.
     
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    The difference is that we are exhorted in scripture to pray one for another.

    The greater question is how much does our prayer influence the mind of God? Is our prayer simply a step of obedience which brings us closer to the Lord in mind and direction, hence results oriented prayer.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. nate

    nate
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can see where you are coming from. I must ask does the Methodist Church as a whole teach that we should ask for the Saints in Heaven to pray for us?
    In Christ,
    Nate

    "Eccere nullus-a-um salus-utis externus Christus!"
     
  11. nate

    nate
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    I still can't find any evidence in Scripture that supports requesting saints in heaven pray for us.
     
  12. riverm

    riverm
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well we do know that God answers the prayers of the righteous as James states in Jas. 5:16-18. So that being said, Christians in heaven are even more righteous than those on earth, since they have been made perfect to stand in the very presence of God. So wouldn’t their prayers be even more efficacious?

    I’m not advocating not praying to Jesus, we should pray directly to Christ with every pressing need we have. But what would it hurt in asking a loved one that’s passed on to pray for us?
     
  13. riverm

    riverm
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Methodist, like the Catholic Church dose not teach that we are to ask the saints to pray for us and bypass Christ altogether, but then again we Methodist aren’t told we should never ask a Christian in heaven to pray for us either.

    I’ve been to a few Catholic services and from my view point, the prayers said in their Mass, the central act of Catholic worship are directed to God and Christ, not the saints.
     
  14. riverm

    riverm
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then again there's no evidence in scripture that says we should not ask for prayers either from those saints in glory. But there’s evidence that suggests that the saints in heaven are aware of earthly affairs and there’s evidence that the saints in heaven are interceding for those on earth as depicted in the book of Revelation and we do know from scripture that prayers are effective.
     
  15. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,616
    Likes Received:
    6
    Well put, riverm.
     
  16. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have any of you moved mountains?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. JFox1

    JFox1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know if the saints in Heaven pray for us or not. But if they do, I don't mind. We need all of the help we can get.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]#1. There is no mention here of "Saints praying for us"

    #2. There is no statement here that WE who are alive are not "the saints" who are praying.

    #3. Therer is no mention here of saints "praying to the dead"

    To the contrary - in the Bible we are told that the saints are those ON earth that Paul and John are writing TO - who are READING the Bible in the various local churches.

    The superstitious ideas about "The saints being dead people" comes from the dark ages. Surely the term may "include" those who are called by Paul "The DEAD in Christ" in 1Thess 4 and we should not "MOURN" or "WEEP" over their loss as though they will never be restored. (Read the chapter for details) - but that is a far cry from the dark ages view of "praying to the dead" and calling that dark-ages idea communion with saints.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    In Eph 6 we see Paul asking that the saints pray for him. I too want that same thing.

    #1. He tells us the SAINTS are those living and reading the text he is writing. (as I just pointed out above -- Eph 1)

    #2. He asks that they all pray for him in chapter 6.

    #3. He shows in numerous places where HE is praying for THEM as well.

    This is done in both OT and NT.

    Pray for the brethren.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. DanC

    DanC
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    </font>[/QUOTE]#1. There is no mention here of "Saints praying for us"

    #2. There is no statement here that WE who are alive are not "the saints" who are praying.

    #3. Therer is no mention here of saints "praying to the dead"

    To the contrary - in the Bible we are told that the saints are those ON earth that Paul and John are writing TO - who are READING the Bible in the various local churches.

    The superstitious ideas about "The saints being dead people" comes from the dark ages. Surely the term may "include" those who are called by Paul "The DEAD in Christ" in 1Thess 4 and we should not "MOURN" or "WEEP" over their loss as though they will never be restored. (Read the chapter for details) - but that is a far cry from the dark ages view of "praying to the dead" and calling that dark-ages idea communion with saints.

    In Christ,

    Bob [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Surely asking saints to pray for us didn't start in the dark ages.
     

Share This Page

Loading...