Featured Salvation: A Gift or a Reward?

So God created sin and evil for His own glorification and praise, allowed men to fall into complete degeneration after making everything "very good" in the beginning, and makes it necessary for Jesus to die for the sins of a few, and then simply makes men saved for no reason other than His good pleasure?

Why didn't God just make men saved to begin with? He could have let Jesus off the hook when He prayed, "If it be possible, let this cup pass from me." He could have banned sin, the serpent, and the tree of life from the Garden of Eden before the whole sin fiasco developed, and that would have eliminated thousands of years of the endless suffering and deaths of billions of people.

But you believe God wanted all of this suffering to take place, even delighting in the fact that billions of those He made hopeless sinners must now be fried in Hell forever and ever for being the sinners they were made by God to be? Something smells fishy here and I don't think it is the Bible.

 

DHK, he is saying that when we use our freewill to accept the gift of salvation, that we are 'cooperating" with God and that makes it a reward.

In other words, we aint really saved if we think we have to accept the gift of salvation.

He even stated that we cant get saved by praying for salvation????uh???

I reckon he thinks salvation just 'comes upon' us as we sleep without our knowledge.

What drivel

John

 

I don't need to do that because I am not an Arminian.
Define Arminian. Who on the board, strictly speaking is Arminian?
Arminians believe they can lose their salvation.
How many here believe that? There may be some, but not many.
I don't know of any here that believe all the points of Arminianism, but I know plenty that believe all the points of Calvinism.

 

You can call it cooperation if you like. See here where God encourages the cooperation also:

"Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat of the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." (Isa. 1:16-20).

We should encourage all men to cooperate with the Lord (like encouraged here in Isa.) when seeking Him for salvation.

 

You didnt say "any person" in your OP, You said "arminians". I am not an arminian but I know that by "arminian" you mean everybody that is not Dog.

I am deeply offended that you question my salvation simply because i chose to accept it.

You should be repremanded and this thread should be closed because your sole purpose is to demonize Non-Cals, and question their salvation, which is against the rules of the BB.

John

 

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.

Ezekiel 33:
12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’ 13 If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done.

Romans 4:
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]

The cost of our sin is death, how can we be rewarded for something we did not do. We sinned we die with Christ we live a new life through Him. The only payment we can pay is death and Jesus paid it. All we can do is trust in Him and His word that He will do what He says He will do.

Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[Or is from faith to faith] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[Hab. 2:4]

I will never see my salvation as a reward because it is Christ who suffered in my place for my salvation.

 

:laugh: & your point is :laugh:

 

Let me repost your own inflammatory words so you can read them:

"One specific theology, and other nominal belief systems that make this gift a reward is found within the teachings of Arminian theology and among some non-Calvinist theologies.

Arminian theology teaches a cooperative salvation, that is, that man cooperates with God, then chooses salvation, and then is rewarded salvation. They would call it gifted, but the actual teaching denies this. "

Looks to me like you included just about everybody except Dogs.

Ok, preacher, you tell me who it doesnt include.

Which non-cals dont treat salvation as a reward?

If you are not talking about every non-cal, then tell me, which non-cals do you exclude?

John

 

Satan hopes that people will sit back and get a false sense of security because they think they are specially chosen by God. Jesus would rather you willingly choose him and serve him faithfully than be a prideful member of an elite group.

 

All Baptists (except Reformed) believe that we must chose to be saved, so you are indeed talking about all of us non-cals on the BB.

And that is offensive

John

 

Specifically who? What churches?

All Baptists (except Reformed) believe we have a freewill and a choice.

Are you questioning the salvation of all Baptists (except Reformed) because they believe in freewill?

John

 

Straight from Satan^

Satan doesnt want us to believe we have a freewill, and you are helping his cause.

John

 

It does matter. Don't slanderously label those who are not Arminian as Arminian. Drop the title. Just because a person is not a Calvinist does not mean he is Arminian. That is slanderous. It is a false accusation. So, yes, it does matter.

Those that cooperate with God are the COC, the RCC, etc. They believe in things like baptismal regeneration, works-based salvation.
There is no one here like that.

Faith is not a work. Even Jesus taught that. Paul taught it clearly in Romans 4:3-5. You need to study that passage.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Does this verse mean anything to you?
Salvation is dependent upon the believer receiving the gift of God that is offered him. There is no salvation outside of accepting that gift by faith. Or have you dismissed sola fide from your theology.