Salvation and the OT

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by wopik, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. wopik

    wopik
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    Paul says to his close friend Timothy: "But continue in the things which you have learned and have been assured of, knowing of whom you have learned them, and that from a child you have known the holy scriptures (OT), which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (2Tim. 3: 14-15).

    The only scriptures in existence when Timothy was a child were the pages of what we call the Old Testament, which are able to make us wise unto salvation -- through faith -- in Christ Jesus.

    Not many ministers today would make that claim. Paul did.
     
  2. Helen

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    The fact that God would send a Messiah for all nations and peoples was known from the time of Eve. The promise was reiterated to Abraham, even regarding all nations.

    Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of that Promise. Trusting in the Promise BEFORE the Cross was just as much trusting in Christ before His incarnation as trusting in Him after the Cross is.
     
  3. Abiyah

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    (a huge) AMEIN, Helen!!!
     
  4. tyndale1946

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    Helen, Abiyah and wopik... Hebrew 11 is the great faith text chapter of the Bible... We who look to the promises fulfilled... Look back to those who waited for those promises to be fulfilled by an eye of faith... Then again the scriptures say that Abraham saw my day and rejoiced in it... What an eye of faith that could see all the way to the cross of Calvary... To the empty tomb... On to the throne of glory and the Godhead who sat on it!... What an awesome God we serve!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  5. Abiyah

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    I have actually heard it preached that our Lord,
    in His death, went to the graves of those who
    had died previous to His sacrifice, and preached
    to them so that they could be saved, too.
    Amazing.

    Thank our God, Hs is mightier than people give
    Him credit for being.
     
  6. Caretaker

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    Acts 8:
    26: And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
    27: And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
    28: Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
    29: Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
    30: And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
    31: And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
    32: The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
    33: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
    34: And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
    35: Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
    36: And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
    37: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    38: And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
    39: And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
    40: But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  7. Artimaeus

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    Abiyah, he didn't preach to them so that they COULD be saved, he proclaimed to them that what they had been waiting for had been accomplished. I saw a great comic strip once that went something like this.
    1st character obviously reading the Bible:
    "Oh, my goodness...says here...Jesus descended into Hell!"
    2nd Character responds, "You're kidding!"
    1st character, "Oh, no...not to STAY!...He just dropped in to cancel our reservations!"

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Abiyah

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    Yeah, well, where I heard that one, they said a LOT
    of obtuse things. 8o)
     
  9. Pure Words

    Pure Words
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    "If brains were gasoline--many of you would not be able to prime an ant's motor scooter"

    If OT (under the Legal Dispensation) salvation was identical to NT (Grace/Church age) salvation then the Bible would SAY so.

    Paul was the apostle of the Dispensation of GRACE, "Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:"

    Grace was not in effect until Christ:
    John 1:17, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

    Also Ezekiel clearly shows OT salvation was at least in parts of works:

    Ez 18:
    20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
    21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
    23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
    24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
    25 Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
    26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
    27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
    28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

    this is clearly to the "House of Israel." they did not have the eternal security we have. Their righteousness was dependent upon keeping the statues. They were NOT: part of the bride of Christ; spiritually circumised; eternally secure; born again; or new creatures in Christ.

    Things that are different are NOT the same!

    Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie
     
  10. wopik

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    If OT (under the Legal Dispensation) salvation was identical to NT (Grace/Church age) salvation then the Bible would SAY so.

    Grace was not in effect until Christ:
    John 1:17, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

    Also Ezekiel clearly shows OT salvation was at least in parts of works:


    ------------------

    With all respect, Paul says there was never a law given -- whether in the OT or NT -- which could give life (Gal. 3:21). Therefore, the OT Saints did not earn their own salvation; their faith "saved the day".

    Moses considered the abuse he suffered for Christ to be greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt -- Heb. 11:26 (New Revised Standard Version: Holy Bible).
    Moses' faith was so strong, it enabled him to keep the Passover (Heb. 11:28).

    Jonah said the Lord of the OT was "a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and ready to relent from punishing" (Jonah 4:2).

    Mercy, grace and clemency were always available to OT Christians (Deut. 5:10 / Jer. 32:18 / Dan. 9:4).
     
  11. tfisher

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    There is a wonderful sermon by Jonathan Edwards on Psalm 25:11 (OT) entitled "Great Guilt No Obstacle to the Pardon of the Returning Sinner."

    Psalm 25:11
    11 For thy name’s sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.

    It is clear that David is not depending on his own righteousness.
     

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