Salvation For Jews Only?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by drfuss, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. drfuss

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    John 4:21,22
    21 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."


    In John, Jesus tells the Samaritan woman that salvation is of the Jews implying that Samaritans cannot be saved. Does that mean that Gentiles had to become Jews to receive salvation during the time from Moses to the Cross?
     
  2. Magnetic Poles

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    The phrase "of the Jews" isn't saying "for Jews only"; rather it is saying salvation would come from the Jews, as Jesus himself was Jewish. At least that's my take on it.
     
  3. LeBuick

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    It is clear in the Gospels that Jesus' primary mission was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He makes that clear early in the Gospels and says it on a few occasions. Look at the first time he sent his disciples out;

    Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


    I don't think he can be anymore clear than that. However he later says there are other sheep not of this fold which in my view is when he begins to encompass the Gentiles and the rest of the world. This is evident by the final which is also called the "Great Commission";

    19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    Notice he now includes all nations...

    I think John put it best;

    Jn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
     
  4. donnA

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    It says OF the Jews, not FOR the Jews. Meaning salvation came form the Jews, meaning Jesus is a Jew. Salvation was never meant for Jews only, but because they were God's chosen people, it was offered to the Jews first, but was intended to be for them alone.
    Jn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
     
  5. drfuss

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    drfuss: Perhaps I should rephrase the question.

    If I were a gentile during the time of King David (during the Law period), must I worship according to the law to be saved? Or ask another way, could gentiles be saved during that time if they worshiped God while ignoring Israel and the law? I really don't know. I can see both sides of this issue.

    This is a yes, no, or who knows, question.
     
  6. LeBuick

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    I would like to answer this question but I would first need to know how you feel on this question. Did the priesthood of Melchisedec end when the Levitical law began then started again with the coming of Christ? I will also add don't confuse the answer to this question with the fact that Jews wrote the OT.

    Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
     
  7. Joe

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    No one can follow the law with perfect obedience. Even if it were possible, it is faith in Christ which results in salvation.
    If the Gentiles loved God, they would not ignore the law, but strive to follow it. Genunie worship results in this desire. Yet following the law does not result in salvation, it is only works.
    The Law condemns us, judges us for our sins which results in death. But thru faith in Christ, he has offered us a gift due to his sacrifice on the cross. He bore the penalty of our sins (death) for us. This includes Gentiles.

    Romans 10:4*
    4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Romans 9:30-33What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
    31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
    32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
     
    #7 Joe, Jul 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2008
  8. TCGreek

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    Not at all! Romans 1:16 should prove helpful on this question.
     
  9. drfuss

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    drfuss: Thank you for responding. My question only addresses the time from Moses to the Cross, not during the Christian era. Do you think Romans 1:16 also applies to before the Cross? Note to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
     
  10. drfuss

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    drfuss: You ask a very good, pertinent question. In a way, it is the same as my question.

    Concerning the Priesthood, consider Ex. 19:5,6. Israel was chosen to be a Kingdom of Priests and a holy nation. I guess a question would be: Did God choose to have two Priesthood systems at the same time, or did He choose to replace the Melchisedec system with the Israel law system during the time of the law?

    Jesus replaced the law priesthood system on Calvary with a system after the order of Melchisedec.
     
  11. LeBuick

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    Very good and solid answer…

    Here is my take on it.

    I believe Melchizedek king of Salem to be a type of Christ. We know Abram paid tithes and knew God via this priesthood. This was the priesthood of Abraham the father of the faith. We're not told where this priesthood came from but I can’t see God dissolving or replacing a priesthood especially if I am right and Melchizedek is a type of Christ.

    In this logic I don’t believe the Levitical priesthood ever replaced or even was a superior priesthood for several reasons.

    1. We know the law as the symbol of works. Salvation was never by works and was always through faith. Heb. 11 teaches this clearly. All those that were saved were saved by faith. Without faith you cannot please God no matter how many laws you keep. So this means the Levitical priesthood, being represented by the law, was not a means to salvation (Heb. 5:11). The blood of bulls and goats could not save. Faith is and always was what saved.

    2. Israel looked forward to the Messiah. A Messiah who was always to come from the priesthood of Melchizedek (ps. 110:4 & ps. 76:2 [remember, Melchizedek was king of Salem])

    3. Heb 7:5 teaches us that the Levitical priesthood staid faithful to the laws from the priesthood of Melchizedek. I don’t believe they staid faithful to the laws of a priesthood that no longer existed.

    4. Heb 9:11 seems to imply this type of Christ, the priesthood of Melchizedek, from which Christ himself revealed the priesthood of his persona of savior was a “greater and more perfect tabernacle” not made with hands.

    Consider all the people who knew God via the priesthood of Melchizedek, what happened to them when Abraham came on the scene? We can’t think Abraham was the only tither he had in the pews. Where did everyone else go? What about their descendants? They were not from the loins of Abraham yet their forefathers had this God, did they suddenly stop believing? Did God suddenly stop being their God?

    So my conclusion is not that there was a dual, parallel or second priesthood but that the Levitical priest stemmed or branched from the priesthood of Melchizedek just as Christ did. The priesthood of Melchizedek was always the root.

    I further believe the writer of Hebrews, whom ever you feel it was, was writing to the Jews rationalizing that they should not forget the father of the faith had a priest whose God made us this promise and that the promise has been delivered out of that same priesthood. It was that God who made us this promise and it is that God who gave us this messiah.

    Could a Gentile be saved within the Jewish faith? You don’t have to look any further than Ruth for that answer. Was their Gentile salvation outside Israel? I’d say God has always been partial to faith. I don't think the law was replaced but rather fulfilled or satisfied.
     
  12. TCGreek

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    Sorry I didn't pick up on "From Moses to the Cross." Well, Jesus said so to the Samaritan woman (John 4).
     
    #12 TCGreek, Jul 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2008
  13. drfuss

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    drfuss: Sorry, but I don't follow what you mean. Would you explain further?
     
  14. TCGreek

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    Jesus says that salvation comes from the Jews (John 4:22).
     
  15. LeBuick

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    I read somewhere (possibly Josephus) that the Samaritans worshiped the same God as the Jews except they didn't believe in any of the prophetical writings. Along with God of the Jews they also worshiped idols. This is generalized somewhere around 2 Kings 17:2? forward... I'll have to look for it. This is what Jesus meant when he said "Ye worship ye know not what:" he meant you, the Samaritans, know God yet you also believe in these other idols so you really don't what you believe you know. He goes on in verse 23 to explain the one true and living God is a spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth.

    The Jews clearly knew their God so regarding the Jews he said "we know what we worship". This confirms them being mono-theos. Notice how he said WE. This means he is claiming his heritage as being a Jew and knowing he is the savior sent from God.

    So the expression "for salvation is of the Jews" simply means he is Jewish and is also the Savior. It was prophesied as so but the Samaritans rejected the prophetic writings. So he is saying the Messiah came from the Jewish race. Others take this further by saying all the disciples and initial believers were also Jews. This means the Gospel which went forth into all the world began it's origin and spreading with Jewish fellas preaching the good news of Jewish Messiah named Jesus.
     

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