Salvation

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Kahlon, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. Kahlon

    Kahlon
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    This is the way I see that the lake of fire and brimstone cleanses us from our sins and washes us till we are pure:

    Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
    Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

    Look at how the sons of Levi are cleansed so that they may offer unto the Lord with righteousness.

    Lets compare it to Isaiah 4:

    Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

    As trash is burned and precious metals are purified by the use of LITERAL and PHYSICAL fire, so God burns our spiritual trash and purifies those qualities of character worth saving by His SYMBOLIC and SPIRITUAL fire. Physical fire is inanimate and uncaring. God’s spiritual fire is caring and loving.

    Is it possible that this fire is the divine fire of God is to cleanse, purify, purge, temper and change. It is to get rid of impurities, of filth, of undesirable elements?

    Psalm 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
    The WAY of the ungodly shall perish. . This does not say the person perishes but his ungodly ways.

    1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
    Here it says man’s work shall be burned but he himself will be saved.

    So does it mean that when a man perishes only his bad portion perishes for an eternity but he has salvation and is put in the Book of Life?

    Can you give me some examples that refute this?

    Thanks
    Kahlon
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    IN Rev 20 and 21 we actually see the Lake of Fire.

    In Rev 14:10 we see it described as "torment" with NO rest promised to those who suffer.

    In Matt 10 Christ describes it as the "Destruction of BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell".

    If you think that "DESTROYING both body and soul LEAVES you with Both body and soul" then you have greater powers of eisegesis than I had imagined.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
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    HP: Not that I agree with the original post, may I take personally your compliment as well? To destroy does not necessitate the notion of annihilation, but destruction of being able to carry out the things in this life it was once able to carry out. For instance, the psalmist tells us Psalms 1:6 “For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the WAY of the ungodly shall perish.”

    Just as the rich man in hell desired water but found none, the wicked will crave things they cannot find fulfillment for. That appears to me the destruction spoken of here.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Where in the Bible is "life" described as being the condition of having "Both body and soul destroyed"??

    In Matt 10 -- in context we see that "in this life" the wicked are said to clearly be able to "Destroy the body but not the soul" that is a clear reference to "real death".

    Then by contrast you have REAL death not only for the "really destroyed body" but also the "really destroyed soul" in hell fire according to Matt 10.

    Now if you are claiming that a sick person who has their body "destroyed" by the wicked - then goes on to "Become well" -- then in that same context you could argue "just so those whose soul and body are destroyed by God in fiery hell - are able to overcome and survive it going to live healthy happy productive lives anyway". Instead of that it is "dust to dust" destruction of the body in real death -- that is the comparable "Destruction" of BOTH body and soul in fiery hell by God.

    But I see no way to get Matt 10 to that point.

    What do you propose?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Bob

    While the author of this thread has hope that salvation comes from the lake of fire . . .

    We have an Author of our salvation that cleanses us from sin and washes us in His royal Blood.

    Cleansed by the Blood?

    Or

    Cooking in the fire and hoping for salvation?

    While that should be a no brainer . . . this post proves that it must be more than a no brainer.

     
  6. Kahlon

    Kahlon
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    Hi

    Rev 20:14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
    Rev 20:15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

    The second death is the end of death and the grave which were cast into the lake of fire.
    This is like a symbol of speech cause you cant really throw graves and death into the lake of fire. I believe at this point there are those who are cleansed by God’s fire.
    Like in this verse:

    1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    They will be saved by fire. By God’s consuming fire.

    Like in:
    Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

    The chaff gets burned up, the part that is no good, but he gathers the wheat which is the good part of the plant. It is like comparing to using wheat from the field, we only use the seed of the wheat and get rid of the chaff.

    Rev 21:8 and to fearful, and unstedfast, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the liars, their part is in the lake that is burning with fire and brimstone, which is a second death.'

    Here it says the bad works which is listed, that part of the person is thrown into the lake which again is symbolizing that those evils or bad parts of a person is finished with for ever.

    When it comes to the soul part, I still have to study that.

    Kahlon
     
  7. webdog

    webdog
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    Are you questioning what God can do? Is He not omnipotent?
     
  8. webdog

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    You are equating the testing and burning of our "works" with that of our salvation. Our works will be tested by fire, determining our rewards, not our position in Christ.
     
  9. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Close. I know that most people somehow read this and think that it means that the person will be in the lake of fire, but the grammatical structure tells us that it will be his "part" that will be in the lake of fire. Not the works, like you are suggesting, but not the person either.
     
  10. BobRyan

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    1Cor 3 does not meantion anything about "the person" being burned or on fire. The WORKS listed are the works of "teaching" and doctrine. It is the doctrine that is gold, hay or straw and it is bad doctrine that is burned away.

    That has nothing to do with the lake of fire where PEOPLE are tossed in and "destroyed both body and soul" Matt 10.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Kahlon

    Kahlon
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    Hi

    Yes webdog, I do believe God is omnipotent, like stated in…

    Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

    And

    Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

    And

    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    He will do what he desires and according to his will and nothing can stop him from doing that. He has one mind to carry out his actions. He will do all his pleasures.

    So if in

    1Tim2:3,4
    1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Jesus also works in one accord with God.

    John6:37
    All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

    And what did God give to Jesus..

    Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    God gave Jesus power over All flesh to be given eternal life to all.

    So with these verses in mind, it is hard to believe that anyone will perish. It has to mean something else will perish. What really gets thrown into the lake of fire. It doesn’t seem to be people so, God is omnipotent and will do what he says he wishes, desires or what is his pleasure. So I study and try to find out what these other verses mean that seems to contradict what God desires or wishes.

    Kahlon
     

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