Satan's voice is in our pulpits!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Edward63, Jul 18, 2013.

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  1. Edward63

    Edward63
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    “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light. It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.” (2Co 11:13-15 ASV)

    Where do false teachings originate? Are they not from "false apostles", "deceitful workers"? Then the deluded followers step up into the pulpits and preach the doctrines of these devils they have followed. Notice by listening and reading after these, how these men under delusion follow personalities and various Bible colleges and institutes, rather than the explicit statements of Scripture.

    “And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall never be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men.” (Mt 16:22-23 ASV)

    To be speaking the lies of Satan, does not mean one is conscious of it. Peter was speaking "the things of men", man's reasonings, man's traditions, man's surmisings. Such vain teachings are then turned into doctrine by those who have been duped, putting it forth for others to follow.

    “In writing this much, brethren, with special reference to Apollos and myself, I have done so for your sakes, in order to teach you by our example what those words mean, which say, "Nothing beyond what is written!" *—*so that you may cease to take sides in boastful rivalry, for one teacher against another.” (1Co 4:6 Wey)

    Paul shows here how the sects and divisions come into the church from various teachers. It develops from departing from the explicit, clear statements of God's word and adding man's assumptions, inferences, man-focused reasonings.

    “On seeing him, Peter asked Jesus, "And, Master, what about him?" "If I desire him to remain till I come," replied Jesus, "what concern is that of yours? You, yourself, must follow me." Hence the report spread among the brethren that that disciple would never die. Yet Jesus did not say, "He is not to die," but, "If I desire him to remain till I come, what concern is that of yours?"” (Joh 21:21-23 Wey)

    It is interesting that John gives us an example of this error here in John 21:21-23 and it is here an error concerning prophecy. Even to this day there are men of God who think they know what Jesus meant as to a prophetic timetable, but they must go beyond the simple and explicit words of Jesus to so surmise. Albert Barnes in his NT Notes shows the various views on the statement:

    "Till I come. Some have supposed this to refer to the destruction of Jerusalem; others to the day of judgment; others to signify that he would not die a violent death; but the plain meaning is, "If I will that he should not die at all, it is nothing to thee." In this way the apostles evidently understood it, and hence raised a report that he would not die."

    In this day we have a heresy being taught that God has two distinct peoples, two families: national Israel and the church. This is arrived at in the same manner, "reading into" rather than "reading out of" the word of God just as the disciples did as recorded in John 21:21-23. Then these heretics teach that the Old Covenant sacrifices are brought back in a future 1000 year reign of Christ from a throne in Jerusalem in blasphemy against the record: Heb.7:27; 9:26; 10:26. I state that these are "heretics" since it came into the church in recent centuries, not being the historic understanding of the church or based upon explicit statement of Scripture.

    The more dangerous teaching may be the distortion of being "born again" in John chapter 3. In spite of John 1:12,13 showing that the new birth is solely of God's will, and in 3:8 it is a mysterious act of the Holy Spirit; these false teachers turn the statement of John 3:16 into a command, making it the way to be born again. To these false teachers, John 3:16 reads thus:

    'For God so loved very human who ever lived that he gave his only begotten son so that any person who will exercise their will to believe at some point in time (whether they continue in Jesus' teachings or not) is by this one time act of their will, thereby born again and shall never perish but have everlasting life.' Oddly, these think this human act of the will cannot be changed thereby losing their chosen salvation. How odd, salvation is gained by human merit (his righteous act of believing) but can't be lost by his human demerit (his stopping his believing).

    The verse John 3:16 is a statement of fact, NOT a command. A command to believe is such as in, 1 Jn 3:23. The term world means other peoples, tongues, nations, etc; not just the Jews, since Jesus is speaking to a proud Jew: a "Pharisee" v1, a "ruler of the Jews" v1, "a master of Israel" v10. See John's idea of "world" in Rev. 5:9, and Paul's description of what the "world" means in Rom. 11:11,12.

    REMEMBER: The new birth is like the wind, invisible and a mystery, John 3:8. So, if the new birth is invisible or not seen, what is the new birth's relationship to "faith"?

    “Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.” (Heb 11:1 ASV)

    It is the "conviction of things not seen", the new birth. It is the "proof" (Williams), the "certainty" (Philips), "the sign" (BBE), "the evidence" (KJV). Faith is NOT the cause of the new birth! Being born again is a sovereign act of the Holy Spirit and "faith" is its proof, its evidence, its certainty. It is not some act of faith at one point in time back in the past, but an existing, living faith day by day!

    I have used the term "heresy", Strong's #139, as found in Gal. 5:20 and 2 Pet. 2:1. I find the "The 1911 Classic Encyclopedia" very interesting on this term:

    "HERESY, the English equivalent of the Greek word aipEVCs which is used in the Septuagint for "free choice," in later classical literature for a philosophical school or sect as "chosen" by those who belong to it, in Philo for religion, in Josephus for a religious party (the Sadducees, the Pharisees and the Essenes). It is in this last sense that the term is used in the New Testament, usually with an implicit censure of the factious spirit to which such divisions are due. The term is applied article of the Christian faith,"due to the introduction of" foreign elements "and resulting in a perversion of Christianity, and an amalgamation with it of ideas discordant with its nature (Fisher's History of Christian Doctrine, p. 9). http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Heresy

    It is a point not to be missed that "heresy" is a "free choice". How sad man has made up his own religion of "free choice/will" and labeled it as Christianity!
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    Another arrogant and childish thread. The maturity level around here is just bottoming out.
     
  3. InTheLight

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    So non-Calvinist dispensationalists are heretics that follow apostasy. They are "deceitful workers", "deluded", "speaking the lies of Satan".

    How full of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, and goodness your post is! It is the epitome of gentleness and self control. Congratulations on being a better Christian than I, sir!
     
  4. Edward63

    Edward63
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    “One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. This testimony is true. For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.” (Tit 1:12-14 ASV)

    “One of their own number*—*a Prophet who is a countryman of theirs*—*has said, "Cretans are always liars, dangerous animals, idle gluttons." This testimony is true. Therefore sternly denounce them, that they may be robust in their faith, and not give attention to Jewish legends and the maxims of men who turn their backs on the truth.” (Tit 1:12-14 Wey)
     
  5. Edward63

    Edward63
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    I'll repeat from the Apostle Paul for your benefit so you do not miss it:

    “One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. This testimony is true. For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.” (Tit 1:12-14 ASV)

    “One of their own number — a Prophet who is a countryman of theirs — has said, "Cretans are always liars, dangerous animals, idle gluttons." This testimony is true. Therefore sternly denounce them, that they may be robust in their faith, and not give attention to Jewish legends and the maxims of men who turn their backs on the truth.” (Tit 1:12-14 Wey)
     
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight
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    Oh I agree with what Paul says. Too bad your post did NOTHING to show that non-Calvinists and dispys hold to bad doctrine. You just assumed it was so and merrily went about your denigrations. I could take your OP word for word and plug Calvinism and Preterism in for the doctrines. Would you like that?
     
  7. DrJamesAch

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    Part 1

     
    #7 DrJamesAch, Jul 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  8. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch
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    Part 2

    And you certainly can not rip Revelation 20:4 out of the Bible:

    "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

    This is why Luther and Calvin never touched Revelation, because it BLEW the COVENANT, PRETERIST, HISTORICIST, DOMINIONIST, KINGDOM NOW, ISRAEL/CHURCH AMILLENNIAL HERESY OUT OF THE WATER.

    In John 1:12, belief PRECEDES receiving the power to become the sons of God. Those whom Jesus CAME TO rejected him. Those who get the power to become sons are those who FIRST receive him. The Calvinist has it backwards: Calvinism 101: "to those who he gives power to become the sons of God WILL RECEIVE Him". Read John 1:12 again. It blows Calvinist to their Kingdom theology.

    "11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    '
    Or the Calvinist interpretation: "For God so loved the elect that he predetermined them only to worship him and predetermined others to rape, murder, and blaspheme His name even though He COULD HAVE chosen to do otherwise, but He didn't want to, so that WHOSOEVER is GIVEN BELIEVE in him (as opposed to those heretics that say "whosoever believes" even though that's what it actually says, that's not what it means, it can't be) should not perish but have everlasting life."

    Calvinism actually leads to salvation by works because their salvation depends on God "persevering them" to the end. Even if it is God doing the persevering, it is still done THROUGH WORKS instead of faith, and thus ultimately it is still a WORKS salvation. No Non Calvinist that believes in eternal security believes that you can ever lose your salvation. You are arguing a category fallacy by lumping in what you THINK all Arminians believe, to ALL Non Calvinists.

    First of all, that statement makes absolutely no sense. Since when was the "world" not made of peoples, tongues, and nations? The only way that Calvinists can get around this is by ADDING to the word of God to say all KINDS of people. Rev 5:9 was a specific multitude of those who were already taken out to go to heaven. Notice the difference between that multitude, the one in Rev 7:14, and the 144,000 ON EARTH in Rev 7:4-8.

    "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" 2 THess 1:8-9

    "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:32

    "To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt," Acts 7:39

    "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath" Romans 2:8

    "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?" Gal 3:1

    "Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?" Gal 5:7

    "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" Hebrews 5:9

    "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17

    Those look like imperatives to me.

    If it was a mystery, John would not have told us that we could know FOR SURE that we have eternal life.

    The Bible not only commands to believe in Christ by faith (John 8:24) but condemns others BECAUSE they refused to believe.

    "And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." Hebrews 3:17-18

    The PROOF is the in the written promise of God that those who place their faith in Christ will be saved. Faith is proved by works BEFORE MAN. Matthew 5:16, James 2:11, Romans 4:2. There is not one verse in Hebrews that shows that the Holy Spirit imposed salvation on anyone against their will. In Fact, Hebrews 11 is the exact OPPOSITE of your view because the chapter is about those who demonstrated their faith by WORKS.

    I notice how you left out of Hebrews 11:6 "those that DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM". You've thrown in about 20 different topics in one chapter that fail to even clarify the chapter let alone your assumption of irresistible grace, election and determinism.

    Another butchering of historical languages here. The definition has nothing to do with the theological definitions of free choice. It has to do with the PROCESS of CHOOSING a certain belief or action. Sometimes a persons choices were FORCED by the end of a sword, and it is either form of the process of choosing a thing that applies to ALL kinds of choices, not FREE choice.

    By the way, if you insist that heresy means free will, than that is more evidence for sure that Paul was not a Calvinist!

    "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14.

    A whole ball of nonsense packed into one small thread.
     
    #8 DrJamesAch, Jul 18, 2013
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  9. Rippon

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    Ed63, the very title of your thread is sinful. In your post you mention some doctrines in which I agree with you doctrinally,but you go much too far in castigating them. Why stir the pot in such a fashion?
     
  10. Rippon

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    DJA,as usual you cast aspersions where none should be. It makes you look small.

    How dare you compare Calvinism with the false teachings of Islam,Mormonism and JW! You speak as if they were all equally on the same playing field. It makes me think that you as a self-professed educated man are really full of hot air.

    And just how does Calvinism lead to works as you charge?
     
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