Sats

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by PrTeacher10, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. PrTeacher10

    PrTeacher10
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    I have been looking up information on a variety of different schools.

    Does anyone have first hand experience with the Ph.d. at South African? I am thinking about going from the Th.M. to this program. Would this degree be welcomed to teach adjunct classes? combined with a Th.M? by itself?
     
  2. Ruiz

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    Teaching adjunct classes would depend on the school. However, as a professor I find that most schools tend to stay away from out of the country schools, but desire amd in-country regionally accredited schools. There are some who take out of the country degrees, but it is easier to justify an in-country degree from a regionally accredited school.
     
  3. PrTeacher10

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    Let me clarify, the Th.M. would be RA and in country.
     
  4. Ruiz

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    Are you saying the school is regionally accredited? When reviewing the accreditation of the school, I did not find one of the 6 regionally accredited agencies listed. There are accrediting boards, but unless it is one of the 6, they may not be universally accepted in the United States.

    To me, I am not a fan of always having a Christian School be regionally accredited. However, if you want to teach in the United States, this is almost always a requirement. If I sent a resume to a school and you sent a resume to the same school, I guarantee that because they can find mine among the 6 regionally accredited schools, I would be considered first and you probably not considered at all. There are exceptions to that rule (R.C. Sproul being one of them, but his school is highly respected worldwide). However, generally this is true.
     
  5. Greektim

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    Where are you doing your ThM??? That might help.

    I have thought about the same track (ThM from SEBTS and a PhD from SATS since I'm out of the country).
     
  6. PrTeacher10

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    My education could look like this....

    B.S. Bible and Education- Kentucky Christian University
    M.A. Education- Georgetown College
    M.A. Theological Studies- Liberty
    Th.M. Practical Theology- Liberty

    Ph.d. Theology SATS


    all are RA except SATS.....


    Would my education allow me to teach at the college level as an adjunct?
     
  7. PrTeacher10

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    One more thing...

    I am also interested in doing the D.Min.

    For my current ministry, both would be great choices....

    Liberty will accept me, but I'm not sure I could swing the on-campus time. I am also trying to get in SBTS, but haven't heard anything from them in a while.

    SBTS would be my best choice because I live in Kentucky. They require a little over 20 days on campus. However for teaching adjunct I am thinking the Th.M/Ph.d route would be better.
     
  8. Ruiz

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    Your education except for SATS would allow you to teach. I would not even include SATS on your resume for a teaching position unless you know the school would accept SATS. The reason, they will look up the highest degree you completed first and if that is not regionally accredited, they may not care about your other degrees. Your Th.M. would be the highest degree they would consider for teaching.
     
  9. Siberian

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    I disagree with the above. If you do a Ph.D. at SATS, by all means you should list it on your resume. It is a fully legitimate foreign research degree and by any sensible measure it is equivalent to programs from US RA institutions.

    The credential list the OP posted is obviously sufficient to teach. Whether you'll get hired is another story (as you know, it is a highly competitive field). Of course, there are many profs teaching now with foreign PhD's, some even from S. African schools. The former dean of Liberty Seminary was a UNISA DTh, for example. Hmm... what was that guy's name?

    Anyway.
     
  10. preachinjesus

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    I'll mention something about SATS below but first,

    FYI, the field for adjunct profs teaching Bible, theology, etc etc is drying up considerably in some areas. Just like other humanities positions. That said some schools are offering more adjunct positions but it's hard work to come by usually.

    Now, as for SATS, its an okay school. If I got your CV for a an open position I'd wonder why you went a pretty leisurely route academically. So if you want to get academic street cred you need to be ready to write, write, write and be really sharp on your writing. .

    If you want to go this route SATS might be reasonable, but know this...a lot of academic boards are seeing the S African degree proliferation among evangelicals as a bad thing for the S Africam schools. (Caner certainly doesn't help here) They'll be open, but you need to do some serious work outside to prove your mettle.

    Let me ask this, what would your day job be?
     
    #10 preachinjesus, Jan 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2012
  11. Ruiz

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    This is a great post. Just from my experience as a Professor.

    I would recommend you go to a school that you would want to teach and ask the Dean of the Department his/her opinion. That would be a great way of getting a good, on the ground, insight. I know at my school, a SATS degree is useless in getting an adjunct position, if we had one available. When I was hired, they hired for two positions and had hundreds of applications and the HR person's first job, ensure the final applicants came from Regionally Accredited schools

    I also agree that adjunct positions in humanities are very difficult to come by, and in this climate all adjunct positions. Part of the reason I chose to teach in Business was because I interviewed several scholars in the field of religion to see the job market in religion. Essentially, it is one of the hardest fields to break in to teach. Yet, I assume you may currently be working with a school for a possible adjunct position.

    As for Caner, he didn't get the job because of his education but because he was a well known speaker. Liberty was willing to go through the extra work to show his academic qualifications because of who he was. No other professor in the department of religion at Liberty (and perhaps any other department) has a degree from anywhere else but a regionally accredited school.

    While some overseas schools are readily accepted (i.e. Oxford, Amsterdam, Cambridge etc..), the current climate, especially with adjunct, is to only look at people with regionally accredited degrees. I look at adjunct openings on a daily basis and almost 100% say that you must have a degree from a regionally accredited school.

    While some bigger schools may make an exception from time to time, this is a buyers market in the adjunct world and the HR person does not care about anything else but ensuring they only present resumes that fit the basic qualifications. If you want to be an adjunct, your first job is to get past the HR gatekeeper, and they often do not make an exception.
     
    #11 Ruiz, Jan 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2012
  12. UZThD

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  13. Greektim

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    The sats website said something about spending 1-2 months in Johannesburg for research at their library. But I couldn't find anything specifically about sats' library. Can you talk about that a bit?
     
  14. UZThD

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    -------

    Hello

    A trip to South Africa is not required.

    My current three PhD students are:

    (1) a SBC pastor in the USA still working on his research proposal [ the SATS RP may take months to get approved] and he will be researching ART V of his denominaltional creed. ART V concerns Predestination. SATS is Interdenominational, but quite Evangelical. So, a student may be either Calvinistic or Arminian. But a student must concur with SATS' basic belief statement (which consists of general, historical, Christian beliefs).

    (2) Another of my students is a Korean trainer of missionaries in the Philippines now doing chapter three in his work on Hauerwas' reception of Barth's doctrine of sanctification , and

    (3) My 3rd is a teacher in a seminary in Ethiopia who is now doing chapter one in his research on the issue of differences in Incarnational Christology in the two major denominations in Ethiopia. One is more Antiochene and the other more Alexandrian in Christology.

    I think there are about 40-50 PhD students with SATS. When the research is finished both internal and external evaluators (professors from other accredited schools) will approve or disapprove the dissertation. Soon SATS will offer a DMin as well. PhD students must complete a course in research before beginning their dissertation. Course work and theses are done in either English or French. The SATS PhD supervisors are well educated with terminal, accredited degrees. See their qualifications at the SATS website.

    (PhDs may also be done in Praxis).

    My three are distance education students with no plans of spending time in Joberg. While SATS provides grad students with access to texts and journals online, as well as a person who acts as online librarian, I know nothing about a SATS physical library. There may be one, but I know nothing of it, and I know research in Joberg is not required!

    My own doctoral work in SA with Unizul took four years after the Western ThM. SATS has its own online journal (Conspectus) which articles you can read including three of mine on Christology. SATS also has it own publishing house which recently published the required 600 page text on theological research & writing by Smith which grad students must follow.

    The school which offers programs leading to diplomas, Bth, MTh,PhD, and soon DMin too ( being recently approved for the DMin) is honest, accredited, quite reasonable in cost, very user friendly and to the best of my knowledge is equally or more rigorous than my own experiences in completing the work for three grad theological degrees in two USA institutions and two grad teacher programs in two USA universites.

    I am very thankful that at 71 I still can serve in this capacity.

    Best regards,

    Bill
     
    #14 UZThD, Jan 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2012
  15. Greektim

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    Here is from the website here (http://www.satsonline.org/content/postgraduate-school)

    So it seems that there is a physical library. The website (http://www.satsonline.org/node/617#31) says that it contains 15,000 volumes (fairly small actually).

     
  16. UZThD

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    I didn't say there wan't. I'm glad there is, but I know of no student with whom I've interacted in the 11 courses I supervise or the PhDs who has gone to the SATS library to study. Yes 15,000 is small.

    Fortunately the readers here at BB do not live in restrictive African environs. And I repeat a trip to SA is NOT required!
     
  17. Greektim

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    You seem a bit cantankerous about this. I was just clarifying what you didn't seem to know concerning what was advertised on their website. I never contradicted nor contested your comments. I was just looking for clarity amongst some confusion that I was experiencing in my crown.
     
  18. Rhetorician

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    Rhetorician Observation

    Dear Ruiz et al,

    I hope you are well?

    I would have to piggy-back on what my dear colleague Ruiz has said.

    What I have found is that a good and academic Doctor of Ministry is more usable in most places to RA teaching in the USA than an "out of country" degree. Of course this is a general statement.

    When one is at the right place right time, has a friend, has written or published, or has a specialty that the hiring institution wants; then all things can change.

    But of course all is in the sovereignty of God is it not.

    I would testify that there are fewer and fewer jobs in the humanities and religion even for the adjunct field. Probably more will be coming on line in the "on line" segment of the industry. Forgive the pun.

    "That is all!"

    PS. :BangHead: One bangs their head against the wall when seeking a place to teach in today's market.
     
  19. UZThD

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    -------------

    I'm sorry if I sounded "contankerous."

    But seems to me that what is important about SATS--especially here at BB where unaccredited, easy degrees are often discussed-- is whether SATS has accreditation, rigor, qualified faculty, accessability, moderate costs, usefulness, and PhD entrance requirements which are different than many USA schools.

    By the last I mean that a MA or MTh or MAR may be sufficient to enter the SATS PhD. Certainly one can do the extra years and spend the extra thousands of dollars if one wishes- I did. But it is not required to enter SATS. Neither is a MDIV/ThM generally required, I understand, at the excellent UK schools.

    To me it is quite unimportant to BB readers that SATS invites students in undeveloped countries without full computer access or libraries to visit the SATS library for two months.

    If that point is important to you, that's fine with me. Then, I apologize again. Sorry!

    Oh, and Rhett, my friend, while SATS turned down your request a couple of years ago to teach there with your DMin, you might reapply now that DMins are in the offering. I think they were wrong to turn you down, but maybe it had something to do with their accreditation. Or you may be too busy now with all your publishing.

    I have freely put in about 5000 hours in 5 years so far in serving SATS students. I pray to live five more years to make it 10, 000 hours. This free giving of time and energy is NO BIG THING as I satisfactorily live on teacher retirement and SS. Now that my wife died last year I only need to support myself. So turning down $$$ from SATS, although I have a contract for payment should I need it, is not difficult. Doing this for SATS is very rewarding, and I myself learn much by preparing myself to understand and mark student work. EG, I needed to acquire and study a Barth-Hauerwas library just to keep up with my Korean student. SATS did not ask me to work without pay. In fact, unlike some USA schools as Point Loma and Western which frequently request $$$ from me, I don't recall SATS ever asking for donations in their newsletters. As far as I know I'm the only teacher there who works for no pay. Others have families to support-I don't.
     
    #19 UZThD, Jan 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2012
  20. Rhetorician

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    Rhetorician Response

    Dear Friend,

    I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your lifelong companion. I am glad our Lovely Lord Christ is using you. I know your prayer is the same as mine--"to finish well!" You are on the road for sure.

    Do you really think that SATS might want an old DMin warhorse like me. Maybe the publishing might help me to snag a job? Let me know what you think along these lines and whom I may contact and I will surely look into it.

    Right now I have just taken on a new mentee for Columbia Evangelical Seminary and we are working out the details of his degree.

    I am still in the classroom teaching Speech and all of the Religion courses at my little college. And my pastor and I have just released what is my fourth volume, it is on Bunyan.

    I will be teaching Intro to Christian Ethics for a local university in March. I have two conference address on John A. Broadus to give in St. Louis in February.

    Three years ago I helped found a publishing company--BorderStone Press, LLC. Last year alone as Acquisitions Editor I had to read, critique, and edit I estimate about 100 manuscripts. So I am very busy. But that deal at SATS really intrigues me. Let me know a contact person there.

    I have always considered you a "scholar and a Christian gentleman!" and my friend.

    "That is all!" :wavey:
     

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