saved and filled

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by atestring, Mar 23, 2006.

  1. atestring

    atestring
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    I was watching the Southern Baptist Convention of 2005 via the internet. Steve Gaines introduced the Bluegrass Group "The Issacs" as people that are Saved and filled with the Holy Ghost.
    I personlly believe that you can be saved but not filled with the Holy Spirit and that there is a second work of grace( Acts 19)
    But Some believe that you get everything you are ever going to get from God at salvation.
    BTW the Issacs are Church of God, Which
    means that they probably believe in a second work of Grace.
    I would like to hear thoughts about wheither a person can be saved and not filled with the Holy Ghost. Please give scripture regardless of your thoughts.
     
  2. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    We are filled with the Holy Spirit as we are obedient.

    Acts 5:32
    And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    "Obey" is a present active; "obeying".
     
  3. music4Him

    music4Him
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    I believe the day you are saved you get filled with the Holy Ghost. Thats the Baptisim of the Holy Ghost.

    Matt. 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Then we can recieve gifts at that time (1 Cor. 12) or later.

    And notice here in Acts when Peter said........

    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
     
  4. donnA

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    Looks like God's promise is if your saved it means you are filled with the Holy Spirit. Theres no second blessing taught in scripture.
     
  5. Hope of Glory

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    Then why is obedience required to be filled with the Holy Spirit? Are you saying that you must be obedient (works) to be saved?
     
  6. mman

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    If you look at the context, the apostles were healing all who came to them. The high priest had the apostles thrown into prison. An angel freed them. They were confronted again and Peter made the statement, "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” - Acts 5:32

    How was the Holy Spirit a witness? By the miracles that they were performing. An inward dwelling with no manifestations is not a "witness".

    There is much confusion on the indwelling Holy Spirit. There are numerous passages that say the Christian has the Holy Spirit.

    Here are a few slam dunk verses I have found, and there are many others that agree, yet maybe not a forceful or convincing as these:
    Rom 5:3-5
    Rom 8:9-11
    I Cor 2:12
    I Cor 3:16
    I Cor 6:16-20
    II Cor 1:21-22
    II Cor 5:5
    II Cor 6:16
    II Cor 13:5
    Gal 3:13-14
    Gal 4:6
    Eph 1:13-14
    Eph 2:19-22
    Eph 3:14-19
    I Thess 4:8
    II Tim 1:14
    Titus 3:4-7
    Jas 4:5
    I Jn 3:24
    I Jn 4:13

    Yet, in the New Testament times, the Apostles could lay their hands on people and they would receive various gifts the Holy Spirit, outward manifestations, i.e., visible.

    This was necessary to confirm the spoken word, until the written word was complete. Matt 16:20 states, "And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs."

    And Heb 2:3-4 states, "how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?"

    Therefore, it was confirmed, past tense. It no longer needs confirming once it has been confirmed. When the church was in it's infancy, it needed this temporary thing, but when it had the complete word, it put away that childish thing. That is what Paul is talking about in I Cor 13:8-11.

    Philip could perform miracles but he could not pass that to others. Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

    The people of Samaria believed and were baptized (Acts 8:12), yet they had not received the ability to perform miracles by the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 8:14-19 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

    Simon could "see" that the Holy Spirit was given by the laying on of the Apostles' hands and wanted that power also. This was an outward manifestation.

    From the passages above, I think the people of Samaria, who believed and were baptized, had the same indwelling Spirit that God has promised Christians today, yet when the Apostles laid their hands on them, they received the Holy Spirit in a way that we cannot, since we don't have any Apostles to impart it or a need since we have God's written word that is already confirmed and all sufficient (II Tim 3:16-17, II Pet 1:3).
     
  7. Chemnitz

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    Why must people play math games with the gifts of God?

    God doesn't do half measures, when He does things He does it all.
     
  8. music4Him

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    quote:
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Theres no second blessing taught in scripture.
    ---------------------------------------------------

    Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    Can a Christian be in a "heavenly place" in Christ?

    Eph 2:5-7
    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    Eph 3:10-20
    To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
    12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
    13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
    14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
    17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
    18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
    19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
    20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,


    That sounds like promises to me.

    Psa 68:19 Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah.

    What are the benefits that the Lord loads us with?

    Psa 103:2-5
    Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
    3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
    4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
    5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
     
  9. atestring

    atestring
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    could you please give scripture for your post?
     
  10. Chemnitz

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    Gen 1:1 - Rev 22:21 read that and you will see God doesn't do salvation through half measures.
     
  11. JGrubbs

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    I believe that we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ and become Christians, but that because we are sinners we must continue to "be filled" with the Holy Spirit throughout our Christian lives. I believe the meaning of the verse that says to be filled with the Holy Spirit, is properly translated as "be being filled" or "continue being filled".
     
  12. atestring

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    I believe that we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ and become Christians, but that because we are sinners we must continue to "be filled" with the Holy Spirit throughout our Christian lives. I believe the meaning of the verse that says to be filled with the Holy Spirit, is properly translated as "be being filled" or "continue being filled". </font>[/QUOTE]Are you saying that a person starts out full when they are saved?
    If so why , did paul have to ave Annanias to pray for him so soon to be filled with the Spirit?
     
  13. webdog

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    I think a more accurate question would be what's the difference between being indwelt by the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit. Being "filled" insinuates an ongoing process...salnctification. He who has started a good work in us will finish it to the end, then we will be "full".
     
  14. music4Him

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    Or what about this being filled is possibley an on-going thing because sooner or later we need to pour out to others? Share our love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance........oh wait thats fruits of the Spirit!
     

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