Saved by Grace not of works !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Nov 2, 2011.

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  1. savedbymercy

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    Eph 2:8-9

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The bible teaches and from this very passage, the doctrine of Salvation by Grace excluding any merit or works, or conditions and requirements to be performed on the part of man to secure it. Once a condition has been set, any condition, in order to get saved, something man must perform, such as to believe, to repent or anything else, Salvation by Grace through Faith is denied, and a work salvation is erected in its place. Rom 11:6

    And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    The Main reason why Salvation by Grace through Faith is denied by the religious world is because, Salvation by Grace means Salvation by being of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7

    5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    You see,Salvation by Grace means that God hath only purposed to save only some out of lost humanity by Grace and to dam and confirm in blindness the rest !
     
  2. savedbymercy

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    Saved by Grace not of works !

    You see,Salvation by Grace means that God hath only purposed to save only some out of lost humanity by Grace and to dam and confirm in blindness the rest !

    So what the False Teachers have done, they make Faith or Believing as conditions for Salvation, to be performed by men, instead of acknowledging that Faith or Believing are evidences of Salvation. Once this prospers in our thinking, we have a Salvation by works or by what we do Gospel, which denies Salvation by Grace !

    You see anything we make a condition, a requirement to do is classified as a work !

    God's Glory is manifested in the Eternal Salvation of His Chosen People, by His Sovereign and Reigning Grace in the accomplishment of their Salvation through Jesus Christ. Rom 5:21

    21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    In Salvation by Grace, Grace Reigns through or because of Righteousness. That is the imputed Righteousness of Christ. God imputed the sins of the Elect unto Him, and in turn imputed His Righteousness unto them. 2 Cor 5:21, and this Righteousness laid to their account because of His Death for them, demands Eternal life for them. Prov 11:19 Christ's Death gives Justification to life Rom 5:18b

    even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    All the men Jesus Christ represented as their Surety, through His death, He procured unto them Justification of life, which is Eternal Life, so Grace reigns because of Righteousness unto Eternal Life for God's Chosen in Christ, the Election of Grace.
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    Saved by Grace not of works !

    The proclamation " For by Grace are ye saved" is very plain speech which should not be mistaken, as so expressed in Eph 2:5 as well Eph 2:5

    5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

    Now we want to point out who it is Paul is saying to them, you are saved by Grace ! BTW This Saved by Grace in both vs 5 and 8 are in the Perfect Tense in the Greek, which denotes the permanency of their Salvation [Future Salvation ensured], as well as being in the passive voice meaning someone else outside of themselves done the Saving !

    Paul is directing His comments to Eph 1:1

    1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

    Now though at the time he was writing specifically to the Saints at Ephesus, it should not be limited to them alone, but its applicable to all and any who are in Christ Jesus, for we are Saints or Holy One's or Set Apart Ones in Him !

    Now these here in Christ Jesus in Ephesus we are told in vs 4 Eph 1:4

    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    We are told that they were Chosen in Him before the Foundation of the World [ Rom 11:5], and in the 10th verse of Eph 2 they are described as God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works Eph 2:10

    10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
     
  4. billwald

    billwald
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    Which comes first? Regeneration or conversion?
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    They are calld Faithful !

    Now why are they called Faithful in Christ Jesus ? Well first of all they had been Chosen in Christ Jesus Eph 1:4 and they had Predestinated unto the adoption of Children by Jesus Christ Eph 1:5, and they had been Created in Christ Jesus unto Good Works that they should walk unto, all that makes certain their Faithfulness, for if God has ordained for anyone to walk in Good Works, how can they be otherwise ? For scripture says that God directs a Man's Steps Jer 10:23

    O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

    Prov 16:9

    A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

    Ps 37:23

    23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

    So thats why the Called, Chosen are also the Faithful as Per indicated here Rev 17:14

    These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    These are they who are saved by Grace !
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    How is it through Faith ?



    How is it through Faith ? Because of the corruption of False teachers, the element of faith in the regards of salvation by Grace through Faith, they having imposed upon faith that it is an condition that man must meet or do to get saved [making their faith savior] which is a lie, so then in what sense are we to understand that Salvation is by Grace through Faith ?

    Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God Rom 10:17

    17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The word of Faith vs 8

    Faith is believing God's word of promise,in other words, faith rests in what God has said He will do or has performed. You see God is going to perform His Pleasure whether we believe or not ! 2 Tim 2:13, however Faith is given in order to have confidence in God's word and ability to do what He says !

    Case in point, When God promised Abraham and Sarah a Son in their advanced age, by nature, it was not believed by either Abraham or his wife Gen 17:16-17 and Gen 18:12-13, however by God given Faith, they were enabled to believe God for the promise, that He was able to perform it.

    Now in Heb 11 where we are given a description of this God given Faith Heb 11:1, we are then told how it changed the natural doubt and unbelief that Sarah had when she first heard the promise from her tent in Gen 18:11, now compare Heb 11:11

    11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    You see that ? Now ask yourself, was God's word of Promise to give Sarah a Son against nature, in her old age, conditioned upon Sarah believing it ? No it was not, but Sarah's Faith was conditioned upon God's word of Promise to her. God given Faith gives Glory to God Rom 4:18-21

    18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

    19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

    20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

    21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

    The Promise God was sure, even before Abraham could believe. So Faith comes as a effect or result of God's word of Promise.
     
  7. Chowmah

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    So savedbymercy, were you born with this faith you speak of. No way. How did you come to attain this faith? Did you go to the schoolmaster?

    GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    This scripture says what it says. Before we can attain faith we are under the law (10 commandments). Then the scripture goes on to say the same thing again (in case you missed it the 1st time). We are under the law (our schoolmaster) UNTIL we are justified by faith. Faith is not something that you mysteriously attain attain at birth. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

    ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

    Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

    REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

    Wanna be one of the saints savedbymercy?

    You are saved by grace through faith absolutely. It is a gift and if you read and understand Gal.3 you can see to whom this free gift is given
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    How is it through Faith ?

    Now lets look at the definition of a divinely given Faith Heb 11:1

    1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    And observe how it fits in with Salvation by Grace through Faith ! God's Eternal Purpose which He purposed in Himself before the world began Eph 3:11

    11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:


    Eph 1:9

    Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

    2 Tim 1:9

    9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    Titus 1:2


    2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    This Purpose is hid or not known to natural sight and understanding . Matt 11:25-26

    25At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

    26Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

    Matt 13:11

    11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

    1 Cor 2:14

    14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


    Yes, even the election of grace, who by nature are children of wrath as others [ Eph 2:3], and so being, were as spiritually dead and destitute of any ability to see or understand anything of the spiritual kingdom of God Jn 3:3


    3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    or what God has laid up in store for them 1 Cor 2:6-7 !

    Now, the word see in Jn 3:3 means to understand, and Jesus plainly says a man cannot, unless born again, understand the Kingdom of God, which logically means, he cannot understand the Gospel of the Kingdom of God unless already born again ! Matt 13:19

    When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

    So the knowledge of their salvation comes to them through Faith,which is a revelation of the Spirit to their faith, faith which is the fruit of having been born again of the Spirit Gal 5:22, thats why it is said this in Lk 1:77

    To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

    A Knowledge or revelation of their salvation is given to God's People, because of the remission of their sins, through the blood of Christ. This Faith is not of themselves, but of the Spirit of Christ, it is a gift of God, as so was the Spirit given to them Acts 2:38; Rom 5:5;Gal 4:6
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    Faith not of themselves

    Faith is not of themselves, it is included with the Gift Of Salvation and Eternal Life, it accompanies Salvation, and is no doubt what the writer of Hebrews had in mind when He wrote this Heb 6:9

    9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

    A Person cannot experientially have a knowledge of his Salvation, Election and Calling until he is born of God the Spirit whose fruit is Faith and Faithfulness [Eph 1:1], and so all men [mankind in general] have not this Faith [2 Thess 3:2]

    2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

    Faith is Given to God's Elect, His Sheep ! Scripture tells us it is the Gift of God, and not of ourselves, and Jesus Christ the Righteous is the Author and Finisher of it, and so it is properly called " The Faith of the Son of God " Gal 2:20

    I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    This implies that all for whom Christ gave Himself for shall receive His Faith, or the Faith of the Son of God !
     
  10. Chowmah

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    Thats right savedbymercy

    JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    And Gods sheep hear His “voice”.

    DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God. [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

    DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

    Cant do a song and dance around above scripture. It is truly Gods 10 commandments and Gods sheep hear His voice

    HEBREWS 3 [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] While it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that THEY COULD NOT ENTER IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.

    Today if you hear His "voice"

    Scripture above (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - those that believed not - destroyed them)
    Scripture below (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)

    EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.

    Seems those in the provocation did not hear His voice

    Do you hear His "voice" savedbymercy?
     
    #10 Chowmah, Nov 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2011
  11. Chowmah

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    More scriptures on those sheep you mentioned


    MATT.18 [11] For the Son of man is come to SAVE THAT WHICH WAS LOST. [12] How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[13] And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

    Jesus came to save that which was lost.

    MATT.15 [22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[24] But he answered and said, I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP of the house of Israel.

    Jesus said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

    JER.50 [4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in A PERPETUAL COVENANT that shall not be forgotten.[6] MY PEOPLE HATH BEEN LOST SHEEP: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR RESTINGPLACE.

    My people hath been lost sheep
    they have forgotten their restingplace (they sure have)
    let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten (remember the…)

    Well, In Jeremiah we can find the sheep that Jesus came for. The remnant of the lost 10 tribes of the children of Israel, who believe they are nothing more than gentiles. Have the many been decieved, just as the new testament says. The sabbath rest has been forgotten, but as you can see, the lost sheep that Jesus came for will return to the “perpetual covenant” and keep Gods sabbath day. In Jer.50 you find the words “they have forgotten their restingplace” and the 4th commandment begins with “remember the sabbath”.

    EXODUS 31[15] Six days may work be done; but in THE SEVENTH IS THE SABBATH of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

    This is really great. If you have a KJV bible you will find the words “PERPETUAL COVENANT” only in these 2 scriptures. Jer. 50 and Exodus 31. Exodus 31 speaks of the sabbath as a “perpetual covenant” and Jer.50 speaks of that “perpetual covenant” being forgotten by His people.
     
  12. billwald

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    >The proclamation " For by Grace are ye saved" is very plain speech which should not be mistaken

    It is to me! The null case is "saved" because Jesus died for the sins of the world.
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    Faith not of themselves !

    To walk by Faith is to walk by that which is not seen by physical sight, which is against the ability of nature 2 Cor 5:7

    7(For we walk by faith, not by sight )

    2 Cor 4:18

    While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

    Its impossible for the natural man to do this.

    Heb 11:1

    1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    The substance of things Hoped for, which takes in the Hope of the Gospel Col 1:5

    For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

    This hearing had to be with spiritual hearing, in that the Hope of the Gospel is of that nature of those things not seen by nature !

    Col 1:23

    If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

    The word heard here is the greek word akou and it means:

    to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf

    to hear

    to attend to, consider what is or has been said

    to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

    One must first be endowed with the faculty to hear, or be given a hearing ear from the Lord the Spirit.

    So this Hope of the Gospel which is preached in the Gospel, is received by Faith, such hope which God Promised, Eternal Life Titus t:2

    2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    This promise of Eternal life being given, was made before the world began, so its not conditioned upon temporal beings, for they did not exist except in Purpose in their Eternal Head and Surety !

    2 Tim 1:1

    1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

    Now to each one Christ as the Surety represented, they are called in time to receive the promise by Faith Heb 9:15


    15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    So in the Purpose, predestination and promise of God, the Salvation by Grace through Faith of all of God's Chosen People in Christ was confirmed and certain from Everlasting, and Grace by which they are experientially saved by in time, in each successive generation, was given them, along with every spiritual blessing in Christ, according as God had Chosen them in Him before the foundation of the world Per Eph 1:3-4

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Note: Faith to receive is one of the spiritual blessings !

    2 Tim 1:9

    9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    This Eternal Purpose is made manifest by the appearing of Christ, who , on behalf of His Sheep, abolished death [His resurrection affirms] and hath brought Life and Immortality to Light by the Gospel 2 Tim 1:10

    10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    I have shown why by scripture Truth, that receiving Faith is not of ourselves, because it receives unseen and spiritual and heavenly realities not capable of reception by the natural man ! These are things even Adam before the Fall could not receive, because he was merely natural 1 Cor 2:14;1 Cor 15:46

    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    1 Cor 15:46

    Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    But proud men of our day boast of an Ability that even a unfallen Adam could not have..
     
  14. billwald

    billwald
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    Your point in one short paragraph?

    Or are you using this website as "cloud storage?"
     
  15. Chowmah

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    Hey Billwald

    Thanks for the smile
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    Now according to the Eternal Purpose and Grace given us in Christ before the world began, all God's Elect are saved by that Grace and Purpose before the world began, and for this cause we are and shall be called with an Holy calling in God's Time 2 Tim 1:9 and Gal 1:15

    But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

    Or called me because of His Grace, that Grace given in Christ before the world began. This Salvation was finished at Christ's death Jn 19:30, and it was brought to light in His resurrection, hence all the elect were declared openly Justified by His resurrection Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    The Man Jesus Christ, the Son of God had Faith, for He had a promised outcome, thats why it is written Heb 12:2

    Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    Scripture says Isa 53:10

    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    He said on one occasion that He will Trust in God Heb 2:13

    And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

    The Children here are the seed in Isa 53:10; Rom 4:16 and Jesus promises that they shall Trust in God.

    The Faith of the Son of God will be given to all His Seed Isa 53:10. This Faith was also given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with all the OT Saints. All these Children shall receive a knowledge of their Salvation by Faith !
     
  17. lakeside

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    The Bible speaks of eternal life as something future (Mt 19:29; Mk 9:43-47; Ti 1:2; 3:7; Jude 21) and based upon our fidelity, by God's grace, to his commandments (Mt 19:16-17; 25:46; Jn 3:36; Rom 2:6-10; 1 Tm 6:18-19; Jas 1:12; 2 Tm 2:12).
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    lakes

    It is something future as well as something present. If it was not present, Jesus lied when He said this !

    Jn 6:54

    Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Now hath eternal life is in the present tense , a present reality, and to those it is promised a future resurrection to life as per Jn 5:29

    And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Thats false, and works salvation, all of salvation is based upon God's grace, ones faithfulness is based upon God's Grace.

    You are adding works with grace, that is not of God..Its a false Gospel you proclaim. As Far as Keeping God's commandments are concerned, every believer in Christ has kept and is keeping everyone of God's commandments because Christ has kept them for them ! Thats why they have Eternal Life ! Everything Christ did for them, by keeping all of God's commandments for them, and bearing His wrath for them breaking them, has earned them Eternal Life, and God's Law has been honoured for them by Christ..

    You friend teach a false gospel !
     
  19. Gup20

    Gup20
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    Paul makes a distinction as well between faith and works. The Galatians were arguing that Gentiles needed to be circumcised and follow the law of Moses. Paul made the point that their salvation did not come by works, but by faith.
    Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    Here again Paul makes a distinction between faith and works, and equates faith with belief.

    Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
    32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    Here Paul draws a distinction between faith and works, and even says they could have attained righteousness if they (not God) had sought it by faith.

    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.​

    Yet again Paul sets works and faith as distinct and different, and yet once again equates faith with believing.

    It is overwhelmingly clear that faith is not a work. But in case you still don't believe the Bible, here is more:

    I encourage you to study Galatians. Paul defines the two covenants - the law (works) and the promise (faith) - in Galatians 3 & 4:

    Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. (see Genesis 15-17)
    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


    Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (See Genesis 15-17)
    17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.


    Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
    22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
    23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
    24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
    28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
    31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
    All of this is paralleled in Romans 3 and 4:
    Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
    3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
    4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
    14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

    Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

    Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
    24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

    Here are some more verses that say that faith is what you believe, and draws a distinction between "works of the law" and faith:
    Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

    Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

    Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

    Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    2Cr 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

    Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

    Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

    Jhn 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

    Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;


    There are two covenants - the law and faith. Works is following the law, whereas faith is believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    When Paul says "works" in Ephesians, he is speaking to those who are already believers and understand this distinction.
     
    #19 Gup20, Nov 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2011
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Just discredit Original Sin & your home free.:laugh:
     
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