Saved during the Millennium

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Dec 23, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    If the righteous stands at the judgment seat of Christ and only the wicked stand at the Great White Throne judgment, then what happens to those who are saved during the millennium?
     
  2. izzaksdad

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    Dr. Bob,

    Unbeliever's in the Millenial reign/kingdom are inconsistent with the teaching of Rev. 19:11-21.
     
  3. DeafPosttrib

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    Dr. Bob,

    Matthew 25:31-46 teaching us very clear, Christ tells us, WHEN Christ shall come with His angels, angels will take all goats(unbelievers) gathering, and to separate them from the sheep(believers), then, all shall be cast into everlasting fire.

    There is no other chance for salvation ONCE after Christ comes with his angels(Matt. 25:1-13).

    All believers shall be changed into immortality and have glorified body(1 Cor. 15:51-57), none of them shall be dying again when AFTER Christ comes with his angels.

    There is no other 'millennial kingdom' beyond Christ's coming. Eternality will begin immediately after Christ comes at the end of this age.

    Tomorrow, I am going to out of the town for vacation. I will not make any post at Baptistboard till I come home on Jan 5th. I will catch up to make posts with reply back to them.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20-Amen!

    HAPPY CHRIST'S DAY!!! [​IMG]
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    Have a good trip, DeafPostTrib.

    At the conclusion of the Tribulation, there will only be a few million survivors. Some will be born again; some not. These will go alive into the kingdom.

    I personally do not think anyone who is unsaved entering the kingdom will BE born again during that era. And Christ will rule with a rod of iron to keep the unbeliever in line.

    At the conclusion, when satan returns, these unbelievers and their offspring will rebel against the King and fire will fall and consume them all, followed by the GWT judgment.
     
  5. Archeryaddict

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    Here is a part of an article that I found somewhere and copied that I would like to share concerning this topic.

    Not sure who the author is
    otherwise I would credit him/her for this nugget.


    Resurrection and Christ's Elect
    Two Scripture passages seem to cause confusion for many people; and thus, false doctrines are promoted. Mt24:31 speaks of the Son of Man's "elect" which are gathered "with a sound of a trumpet". This, of course, -follows- the "affliction of those days" (vs29) where the stars fall and the powers of the heavens are shaken where God's wrath is poured out. Around this same time frame, when satan is bound for a thousand years, there is a resurrection that is called "the first resurrection". (Rev20:5b)

    Forsaking all the other -multitude- of clear Scriptures which speak of the Lord delivering the Church out of the world before the 70th week, they think these two combination of verses mean that the resurrection, and thus also the Rapture of the Church (1Th4:16-17), occur at the -end- of the 70th week ("The Tribulation"). If it is -Christ's- "elect", it must be the "Church". If it is the "first resurrection", it must also be the "Rapture". Scripture does not contradict itself, but 'they' typically choose to believe what they think these two passages say, ignoring the dozens of other passages that clearly teach a "pre-trib" Rapture/Resurrection of the Church. And as a result, they also apply their views of these passages to many of those other passages, making them say things other than what they actually say.

    I have often wondered how to answer people about these two passages the way they interpret them. We have addressed it a bit in the past. But in the context of beginning this section in Matthew starting with ch24, having received some e-mails about this raising the question anew, the Lord has now suddenly made it clear. And I think we have a -simple- explanation for how to understand this matter properly. So we'll interject this parenthetical study into the Matthew series.

    Let's go back to that "painting". (Study from Mt24:1-8) For the sake of illustration, let us suppose it is a pastoral scene with a couple of "fences" running across it. There is a fence in the foreground, and another further back. The one in front is obscured in a few places by trees, buildings, etc. But you know it's all part of the -same- fence, whether you see the part over on the left end, or the part sticking out of some bushes in the middle. This fence in the foreground, if we were travelling along, we might call the "first fence", and as we went further, we would come to the other, which we might call the "second" fence, where the farmer might dump his garbage over that fence. The "first" fence is for the "sheep"; the "second" for the "goats". Now, keep in mind how we see -sections- of the "first fence" as we look at the painting.

    Another example: a tour bus is carrying a group of people on a trip. They stop for lunch. Now it's time to get back on the road again. It is "boarding" time. One group of people get on the bus and settle in. Another group comes along a few minutes later. Eventually, the final 'stragglers' get on board and as they are climbing aboard the tour guide says to the driver, "this is everybody." After making a head-count, the leader confirms, "that's everybody". The bus is now "boarded". The "everybody" was not that last group of stragglers getting on while he was making the comment, but rather, once they were on it meant that "everybody" was -now- on board.

    When Rev20:5b proclaims, "This is the first resurrection" it is like the tour guide telling the bus driver, "that's everybody". The last of those belonging on the bus are now on the bus.

    They got on at different times, even though it was -one- 'boarding'. That fence is 'one' fence, but we see different 'parts' of it.

    The same with resurrection. Just like the two fences, there are -TWO- resurrections. (Acts24:15) The "first" is of those who are "saved". The "second", while not being labelled as such in Scripture, is understood by the context. The unbelievers are resurrected in order to receive judgment at the "great white throne" (Rev20:11) and end up in the "Lake of Fire". (vs13) And it says, "This is the second death." (vs14) The "second death" corresponding to, and coming after the "second resurrection" ...the resurrection of unbelievers.

    The "first resurrection" happens in stages. The first stage has already occurred; right after Jesus' resurrection. It says, "and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And coming forth out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered into the holy city and were revealed to many." (Mt27:52-53) The second stage is the Church, when the "dead in Christ" rise (1Th4:16), at the same event as the Rapture when "we who remain alive will be caught up.." (vs17) The final stage is when those saved during the 70th week "beheaded because of the witness of Jesus..and had not received the mark on their forehead..and hand" (Rev20:4) are raised to reign with Christ 1000 years. This final group is the same one mentioned in Rev7:14 "coming out of -the- great tribulation.." When these martyrs are resurrected, the living Jews, yet in unbelief (Is45:2-6), will be gathered back to their land, (Mt24:31) where they will be given new hearts. (Jer31:31-34) All three of these 'stages' are part of that -same- "fence". Part of the "first resurrection". And when the final group has been resurrected, it is pronounced, "this is the first resurrection". "This is everybody"..."Everyone is on-board"

    Does Jesus mention these like this anywhere else? The "certain man" made a supper. (Lk14:16-24) Those who had been invited (Israel) refused to come when it was ready. So, when they wouldn't come, the "man" instructs that the servant go to the "streets and lanes" to find people. (Gentiles) (Acts28:28) And when all their 'number' had come in (Rom11:25) there was still more room. And the "man" wanting "that my house may be filled" (Lk14:23) instructs that they go to the "highways and hedges and COMPEL THEM to come in.." This is that "everlasting gospel of the kingdom" (Mt24:14) to "every nation and tribe and tongue and people" (Rev14:6) during the 70th week.

    All three of these groups end up in the banquet hall; each with their own -stage- of the "first resurrection". And notice that Israel who initially rejected, the "remnant" (Zec8:11, Rom9:27,11:5) gets in on the final one with 12,000 from each tribe. (Rev7:4) But all participate in the "first resurrection" at their own times, until it is complete. The "bus is boarded" once all the 'boarding groups' are finally in their seats; one group boarding, another boarding a few minutes later; it's all -one- "boarding". And remember how that "painting" covers 3000 years of time. That whole "painting" of 3000 years is the "Day of the Lord". That "fence" stretches across various 'parts' of the painting. It is -one- fence within -one- painting.

    The Mt27:52-53 resurrection fulfilled the O.T. saints. 1Th4:16-17 will fulfill the Church. And Rev20:4,6 will fulfill those "calling on the name of the Lord" (Joel2:32) during the Tribulation/70th week.

    Now... let's understand the "elect" from Mt24:31 a little more clearly.

    The argument many give is that, if the "elect" in context belong to the "Son of Man", that must mean the "Church", because the Church is made up of CHRIST-ians. We are "in Christ" (2Cor5:17), etc. That Israel was under "God" in the O.T., not "Jesus".

    Paul clears up this misunderstanding for us. Speaking of Israel in the wilderness, their eating and drinking... "that Rock was Christ." (1Cor10:4) Any -physical- manifestation of God's presence to Israel in the wilderness was Jesus Christ, because He is "the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence" (Heb1:3) Israel was following Jesus Christ in the wilderness. And when Jesus came "to His own" (Jn1:11) He was born as a "Jew". His "own" was Israel. He was born "in the flesh" (1Jn4:2-3) "out of a woman" (Gal4:4) as He came "under Law, that He might redeem the ones under law" (vs5) Who was "under Law"? Israel. Of the "Seed of Abraham" (Heb2:16) as He became "like His brothers".(vs17)

    Ps22:22 says Messianically, "I will declare Your name to My brothers.." His "brothers" being, again, Israel. Israel was a nation of "brothers", the 12 tribes having been sibling sons of Israel. The term in Scripture "brother" or "brethren" is most often a "Jewish" expression. When Jesus comes back and judges the nations, He will judge based on how they treated "the least of My brothers.." (Mt25:40) Israel.

    Thus, when we gave the detailed account of how the "elect" in Mt24:31 is Israel, it should be clear that they belong to Jesus Christ. And again, for those who will accept it; they are 'gathered' from the "four winds" to which they had been scattered. The Church was not scattered to the winds like stubble (Jer13:24); Israel was. Thus, the Church is not going to be gathered from those -same- "winds", back to the land of promise; Israel is. (Ez36:24, Deu30:4, Is11:12, Jer23:3, 31:7-11, 32:37, Ez34:11-16) Remember that Jesus is the "True Vine" (Jn15). Yes, Israel was pruned off that Vine, Jesus, for a time so that the Gentiles might be grafted in. (Rom11) But Israel, when they are gathered from the "four winds" will be grafted back in TO JESUS again. (Rom11:23,26) So, again, Mt24:31 is NOT the Church. It is Israel.

    Of course, there will still be those who will simply not accept this; no matter how many different ways we come up with to present it. No matter how many angles we approach the subject. But then, Israel rejected Jesus, too; no matter how many parables He told, or signs He performed. (Jn12:37)

    When Jesus said to the woman of Samaria "salvation is of the Jews" (Jn4:22) He said a whole 'mouthful'. God brought salvation to the world -through- Israel in the Person of Jesus Christ, a Jew.

    Sadly... just as Israel rejected their Messiah (Jn1:11), many who claim to be "christian" reject Him, too. How? How do we know this? They reject the "pupil of God's eye". (Deu32:10, Zec2;8) Remember how He says, 'if you did it to My brothers...you did it to Me'? We know we are saved "by grace through faith" (Eph2:8), but our works -manifest/reveal- our faith. (Jas2) "We know that we have passed from death to life because we love the brothers. The one not loving the brother remains in death." (1Jn3:14) We usually think of this expression as referring to love for fellow-Believers; which is only partly true. If we realize that Scripturally, typically, "brothers" is a Jewish expression, we should understand that part 'n' parcel of being a Christian is also a love for God's people. Let us not forget that Israel was a "natural" part of the vine. (Rom11:21,24) The Church came from the "wild olive" and was "grafted in" ... "contrary to nature". Israel was the "elect" beginning with Abraham. They are the ones who were "invited" to the banquet. The primarily -Gentile- Church was invited when the Elect gave excuses for not receiving Christ. And Paul says, "Do not be highminded, but fear.." (Rom11:20)
     
  6. av1611jim

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    Dr.Bob said,"I personally do not think anyone who is unsaved entering the kingdom will BE born again during that era. And Christ will rule with a rod of iron to keep the unbeliever in line.

    At the conclusion, when satan returns, these unbelievers and their offspring will rebel against the King and fire will fall and consume them all, followed by the GWT judgment. "
    ________________________________________________

    I see a problem here brother. 1000 years is a very long time. Consider how many folks have come and gone since 1000A.D.
    Are you suggesting that during the millenium that there will be absolutely no one person at all who comes to faith in Christ? That is a tall order my friend. I see no justification for this in Scripture. Instead what I see is that at the GWT, one of the resons for it is to grant entrance into heaven for the Kingdom Age believers. IOW those who have come to faith in Christ during the Millenium.
    Re 20:15
    And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    Plainly, "whosoever", implies that some will and some will not.

    Re 5:10
    And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
    Care to explain the purpose of "priests" in the Millenium if no one becomes a believer?

    Just curious about how you come to your conclusions. Please give Scripture, plain and simple. K?

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  7. av1611jim

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    _______________________________________________

    I don't know what you are getting at here friend. This passage is about the end of the reign of the anti-christ. those destroyed in the passage are the armies which come against Christ. Nowhere can it be inferred that the entire population of the world is destroyed.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  8. Daniel David

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    All unbelievers will be executed prior to the establishment of Christ's kingdom so that only the survivors (believers) will enter into the joy of the Lord (his earthly 1000 year kingdom).
     
  9. av1611jim

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    Daniel;
    Documentation for that assertion please.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  10. Daniel David

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    Matthew 25 is the judgment Christ will bring upon the entire world. Those who are unbelievers will be cast into hell. Those who are saved will enter the His kingdom.
     
  11. Archeryaddict

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    Revelation 20:4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
     
  12. av1611jim

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    DD and AA. I see. So do I understand you correctly here?
    You are telling me this from an amillenial point of view or what?

    I believe you have your kingdoms mixed up. I gotta go for now. Christmas prepararions to do.
    God bless one and all.
    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  13. Daniel David

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    No, I am saying it from a premillenial point of view.
     
  14. Archeryaddict

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    mine is Premelineal point of view as well
     
  15. prophecynut

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    Dr. Bob

    The Word does not state what happens to those saved during the Mill, my theory has the righteous dead and alive being caught up to the heavenly New Jerusalem before the earth is renovated by fire (2 Pet. 3:10). Similar to the Church being caught up before the Trib about a thousand years prior to the renovation.

    You have all the righteous appearing before the judgment seat of Christ, whereas I believe the judgement seat solely involves the Church (2 Cor. 5:10). All other righteous people will stand before "God's judgment seat" (Rom. 14:10). Are both judgment seats the same or is there a distinction between the two? Is the "great white throne" God's judgment seat or is it distinct from the other two?
     

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