SAVED even if you don't reject 1Cor 12 and 1cor 14?

What we have here, Bob, is a blatant lie.
The truth, as any reader can see, is that I have repeatedly quoted and/or referred to 1Cor.12:28-30. You have not repeatedly mistook any kind of rendering of at all. You have ignored it altogether, avoided it like the plague. I have set the verses in front of you, and you kept on referrring to other passages instead. I have sarcastically brought you back asking if you knew the difference between a 12 and 14, but still you went to 1Cor.14 instead of 1Cor.12:28-30. There was no mistake here. There still isn't. You continue to avoid my explanation of the passage to this present moment. You still don't get the point to this very minute.
You have called in your defence the KJV a false translation.
Your debate tactics are disgusting.

And where, except in this post have you "repeatedly" stated this.
I quoted the KJV, copying and pasting it word for word. Yet you call it "that loose rendering of DHK" I didn't write the KJV. And it isn't a loose rendering. Why don't you pay attention to what is being posted!!

 

It is about your inability to answer simple questions about Scripture passages given you like 1Cor.12:28-30 which totally defeats your assertion. Go back and count all the times I have asked you if you can differentiate between a "chapter 12 and a chapter 14?" Go back and see how many times you have ignored me, and posted some irrelevant passage in 1Cor.14 instead. You deliberately evade pertinent passages of Scripture because they defeat your position.

First, quoting a plethora of MV's and attacking the KJV will get you no brownie points on this board.

Let's go back to the Scripture that you continue to harp on and see once and for all how you have taken it out of context, and made it contradict other Scripture. Keep in mind that the Bible doesn't contradict itself.

This is the Scripture in question:
1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
---Note that the verse is a rebuke even stated with some degree of sarcasm. The latter part of the verse bears this out. Let all things be done unto edifying. But all things weren't done to edifying. These believers were coming in and causing total confusion in the church, and nothing was edifying. There was only chaos and confusion. They were acting as if they all had a doctrine, a tongue, and revelation; but in reality they didn't. It just looked that way. Both English grammar and Greek grammar bears this out. Let me give you an example.

An enthusiastic song leader said in a recent service: All right, Every one has a testimony to give; every one has a favorite song to choose; everyone has a Scripture to quote. After the next song be ready to give your testimonies, your favorite songs or quote your Scripture. There is no one in that congregation that thought that they would have to do all three. The obvious interpretation is that "every one" would have at least one of the three things mentioned, and no one would have all of them (though that was a remote possibility). The song leader was just asking for one of the three from each of the members who would volunteer. When Paul was saying: "each of you..." It meant that among you all each of you has at least one of these gifts mentioned, and that no one has all three. Study the Greek. It doesn't mean that all people had a revelation. It is not the meaning. Scripture doesn't contradict Scripture! You have deliberately been avoiding 1Cor.12:28-30 because it destroys your theory.
Here it is:

1 Corinthians 12:28-30 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Paul first gives a list of the spiritual gifts that are given to the church in verse 28. Note also that they are given in order of importance. (Firstly, secondly, thirdly, after that, then, etc.)

In verses 29 and 30 he asks a series of rhetorical questions which all have the same answer--NO!
Are all apostles--NO
Are all prophets--NO
Are all teachers--NO
Are all workers of miracles--NO
Have all the gifts of healing--NO
Do all speak in tongues--NO
Do all interpret--NO

Do all have a psalm, a doctrine, a revelation NO! If they did, it would contradict 1Cor.12:28-30. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. Not all have a revelation or the gift of revelation (word of knowledge or revelatory knowledge)--1Cor.13:8. Of that particular gift we are told it would come to an end. It did at the end of the first century, thus making Ellen White a false prophet. The Bible doesn't contradict itself; only your view of the Bible contradicts itself. Not everyone has the gift of prophecy or the gift of revelations. You claim (and your cult requires you to claim that Ellen G. White had both), but there is no evidence that she had either.

Now, I hope you can follow the Scripture quoted this time. I hope you can see what 1Cor.12:28-30 says and won't go off on a rant saying that it is a false translation. That is the lowest form of debate.

 

Shhhhhhhhhhh .. everybody .. Shhhhhhhhhhh.........

I have a suggestion.

Multiply all the words in this thread by $1 and send that amount to children deprived of adequate food and clothing, lungs choked with coal dust, right here in the good ole' USA. When you arrive at the number, post it, and we'll ask everyone to match it, either as individuals, or as a church, or whatever. Looking forward to the amount!

:thumbs:
Here's an example (just one) of the situation there:

Harlin County is one of the most severely depressed counties in Kentucky. The estimated population is 36,000, with 13,000 living in poverty. Unemployment and poverty rates are 150 percent more than the U.S. average. Forty-nine percent of those enrolled in high school do not graduate. In the 50-county area of the Appalachian Ministry, 51,097 households have an annual income of less than $10,000 with 48 percent of those incomes less than $5,000 a year. It is almost unbelievable that 16,691 housing units have no well or public or private water source; 25,885 households do not have vehicles; and 26,116 cannot afford a telephone. The absence of transportation and the physical isolation create serious accessibility problems for health care and emergency situations. The rural resident must pay 30 percent more for their food because of inaccessible large supermarkets. The old coal camp houses are almost 100 years old and are inadequately insulated and dangerous because of faulty wiring. Sagging floors, leaking roofs, peeling paint, and rotting clapboards are common. The fight for survival has left many exhausted, bitter, and hopeless.

--------NAMB, SBC (North American Mission Board, Southern Baptist Convention)

How about everyone who views this, including all of you who don't post, getting together with your church to send $$$$$ to the NAMB specifically designated for the Appalachian region? Without identifying yourself, how about posting the amount that you collect and forward to the BB?

 

Is this a matter of show and arrogance for you Bob. I have condemned no one. I have given my view on Scripture which is very plain and straightforward. Giving teaching on Scripture is not condemnation. I never brought salvation into this discussion. You did. I have repeatedly said that the teaching regarding women keeping silent in the church; under the authority of men in the church; not teachers of men in the church; learning in silence in the church; are church matters given by Paul to Timothy as instruction to the believers in the local churches. Obviously it has nothing to do with salvation. It is and always has been a matter of obedience.

Your problem is your culture and your pride (and your refusal to rightly divide the Word of truth.) This has nothing to do with other churches of other denominations, but since you brought them up I will give you an answer. One of your problems is that you are trying to impose your western cultural and unbiblical manners into the Bible. Let me remind you: there were no Sunday Schools then; no women ministries then; none of those things. The church met as one open gathering. There wasn't even a nursery for babies. You must try to put yourself in their setting.

I am a missionary and travel to mid-eastern countries where things have to changed much. Women sit on one side with their children, and all the women wear a head covering. The men sit on the other side (often on mats placed on the ground). There is no women that would dare speak out in the church. They have no say. If they would, or if their family would get our of order in any way, their husband would come immediately and settle the dispute or even take them out of the service no matter how far away he would be sitting. There is reverence for the Word of God. There is no walking around. The people sit quietly and attentively when the Word of God is preached. They sing enthusiastically. There is joy in their hearts. No women would ever usurp the headship of the house, and no women would ever speak out in the service.
Today the gifts of prophecy, tongues, (revelatory) knowledge, and other such gifts have ceased. The church doesn't see such outbursts. There is quiet worship and instruction from God's Word. Everything is done decently and in order. It is unfortunate that you try to impose unbiblical theology and western culture to try to prop up the doctrines that come from a women that founded a cult.

In this nation that I am referring to, it is the general custom of the Baptists, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, the Brethern, and many others to worship in the same general manner. Women keep silent in the church. Now Bob, are you condemning the way most of the Christians in the world worship. There are far more Christians in third world nations than there are in the Western world.

 

In fairness to Bob, the issue of "salvation" stemmed from the earlier thread, when you first called the SDA a "cult", and the major reason given was that their prophet was a woman. (You basically repeat this, again, above). Cults are generally seen as "unsaved". So the way Bob attacks this, in his roundabout way, is to accuse you of denying salvation to all Christians who disagree with your position on women in Church.
Perhaps you shouldn't have thrown the woman issue in there in the first place, as it was basically OT, not even the SDA's biggest error, and now has sidetracked the whole discussion (and spun off this thread).

Though it is true that the Church was originally very different, and more home oriented. Men had authority over women, because they were the heads of home. The Church as some corporation and a power base, with paid, professional officers (which is what makes it seem like "discrimination" to us, to exclude women) came much later, basically, with the Roman system.

 

The thread you referred to was about cults and their charateristics. It only took four or five posts before someone mentioned SDA's and J.W.'s in the same post (and it wasn't me.) Another senior poster (also moderator) claimed that the SDA's were a cult. I continued to observe the thread and the offence that that post created. Finally I backed it up, agreeing with it. But I did so with evidence.
And I have made the exact same statement many times before, just in other contexts. For example:
I do not believe that one can believe and understand all that the Catholic Churches and fully understand the gospel, and at the same time be saved. In other words you can't be a devout Catholic and a believer at the same time. I don't believe that Bob has trouble with that statement.

I say the same about the Mormons, J.W.'s and the SDA's without reservation. Am I being hypocritical? No, I am being consistent. I proceeded to list the SDA doctrine that goes contrary to the Bible that would put in the realm of a cult--doctrine that denies the atonement, doctrine that puts into the realm of a works based salvation, and doctrine (historically based) that puts their founder as a false prophet, a wolf in sheep's clothing. The last point is what led to a discussion on the validity of the spiritual gifts for today. Even if they were today, if but one prophecy failed a prophet would be stoned by OT standards. She would have been stoned. Like Benny Hinn of today, many of her so-called prophecies failed. The SDA movement is a cult. I make no apologies for that statement. I make not apology for the statement that one cannot believe all that the SDA teaches and be a Christian at the same time.

Bob is trying to link that to the Biblical doctrine of spiritual gifts, prophecy, and other things like women keeping silent in the church. That is very deceitful and unethical. It is unethical and wrong for him to connect the spiritual gifts to salvation. I said no such thing. I said one cannot believe the doctrines of the SDA and not be a Christian at the same time.
What Bob is doing is this. As I have said one cannot believe all the Catholic doctrine and still be a Christian at the same time--Therefore since the Catholics believe the trinity all who believe the trinity must not be saved. This is Bob's logic. I did not say anything about one doctrine of the Catholic Church.
I never said anything about one doctrine about the SDA, that is, the doctrine of prophecy in relation to salvation. I did in relation to Ellen G. White, just as I would in relation to Benny Hinn. Things need to be put into context.

 

I would appreciate it if you would not post lies on the BB, Bob. I never said any such thing. Is this type of thing your strong point in debate?

Another lie Bob. I explained myself very clearly that all the Scripture I posted relating to women in the church was related to obedience and not to salvation. Why are you posting lies.

Another lie Bob. Your credibility is sinking fast. You make statements instead of quotes. This is not much of a debate when all you can do is slander a person. If you don't know my position after 9 pages on one thread and all the pages in this thread, I feel sorry for you.

You have given me a chance? What are you talking about? :laugh:
Did you put a gun to my head? Is that the chance?
What kind of threat do you give me that gave me a chance? What are you talking about? I stated my view, and you are unable to refute. Those are the facts. And the result is evident--a post full of lies and misrepresentations.

Bob, I have answered all your questions. Your problem--you won't accept my answers!!