Saving faith is the work of God

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by The Biblicist, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    The very "substance" of saving faith or that which provides the basis for "hope" of eternal life is not acquired by personal study nor is it obtained from "flesh and blood" but is obtained by direct revelation from God:

    Mt. 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    Gal. 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
    16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

    2 Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;

    Jn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    Jesus proves that saving faith is totally the work of God in John 6:29-65 by the fact that:

    1. Coming to Christ by faith is the consequence of being given by the Father to the Son:

    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


    2. Universal Inability to come to the Son

    Jn. 6:44 - "no man can come unto me except the Father draw him"

    3. Coming to Christ by faith is the consequence of being drawn by the Father to the Son

    Jn. 6:44 - "no man can come unto me except the Father draw him"[/COLOR]


    4. There are "disciples" whom the Father never gave or drew to the Son and thus not all men without exception are drawn by the Father but only "all" whom the Father has given to the Son.

    Jn. 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    I did not write this for those on this forum who are spiritually blinded and hate these truths but for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    In the Bible the Arminian position is seen like this -

    God is the one that "draws ALL men unto Him" John 12:32.. So that is "The work of God".

    God is the one that sends Christ "who is the light that coming into the world enlightens EVERY man" John 1 - so that is the work of God.

    God is the one that places "enmity between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent" Gen 3 - so that is "the work of God".

    God is the one who "Convicts the World of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16 -- so that is "The work of God"

    God is the one who "Stands at the door and knocks - so that IF ANYONE hears my voice AND OPENS the door I will come in " Rev 3 -- so that is "The work of God".

    So the Arminian POV does not claim that God does nothing and as a result we have the Gospel and we have people choosing to be saved. Rather as pointed out above - in the Arminian model salvation is the work of God - in enabling man to choose the way of escape that God provides to all.


    Even by Calvinist standards the drawing of God - enables the choice that depravity disables.

    The difference between the Calvinist model and the Arminian model is NOT that the Arminian model ignores all the texts above - it is that the Arminian model ACCEPTS them without DOWNSIZING them.

    Whereas the Calvininst model has to go though a long downsize-harangue to get Calvinism to survive the texts listed.

    Even in the OP on this thread - the emphasis for Calvinism is not on what God DOES do - it is the inference about what God does NOT do for the "many" of Matt 7 that will be lost.


    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    God is the one that "draws ALL men unto Him" John 12:32.. So that is "The work of God".[/QUOTES]

    Backwards, as John 6 and its more thorough treatment should interpret the later John 12 instead of vice versa like you are doing.

    Moreover, John 6:64-65 completely repudiates your intepretation of John 12:32 as not all men are drawn to Christ as those "disicples" who professed the correct gospel with their mouth, submitted to baptism were not drawn by the Father to Christ - v. 65.

    Finally, Jn. 12:32 means "all men without distinction" as the immediate issue of this context is GENTILES asking the disciples to see Christ and this whole passage is a response to that question.

    John 1:4 makes light equal to life and John 1:9 refers to humans as they "cometh into the world" as Christ is the author of PHYSICAL life/light. John 1:10-13 Christ is the author of SPIRITUAL life as the new birth is of God and not of man, or his will - Jn. 1:13.

    So your intepretation is a complete abuse of the context.

    The enmity that God puts between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Serpent is the same enmity Christ puts between believers and their families (Mt. 10:35) or the righteous nature of the new birth in conflict with the fallen nature in worldlings. Another complete abuse of scripture.

     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    I like the way Martyn Lloyd-Jones discusses saving Faith his book God, The Holy Spirit, page 140. His discussion is very similar to the following:

    It is unfortunate that all too often saving faith is compared to the choices that people make in life. Their argument is as follows :

    Faith is a natural faculty that every person has. You are always exercising faith in your life, you couldn’t live a day without doing so. You exercise faith when you go out to start your car. You exercise faith when you board an airplane. Just as you trust that the car will start and the airplane will arrive safely, why don’t you trust Jesus Christ as Savior?​

    In fact starting a car or boarding an airplane have nothing to do with faith, rather they have to do with an understanding [to a greater or lesser degree] that the probability of the desired event will happen. Therefore, such a comparison is meaningless.


    [My apologies! I have used the above in previous writing and repeat it for convenience.]
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    True! In addition, saving faith comes only by direct revelation from God within the human heart due to the fact that the heart has no ability to either perceive or yeild to God because of its natural enmity against God. Jeremiah said:

    Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    This is its nature from birth and it is readily seen as soon as an infant is able to express themselves. I have five children and nine grandchildren and I have never had to train them to be or do evil - it comes natural due to the natural state of the human heart.
     
  6. OldRegular

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    Martyn Lloyd-Jones and I agree with you!
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Here is where the whole Arminian system of thought comes tumbling down! John 6:64-65 proves that God does not draw all men without exception and therefore the Arminian interpretation that John 12:32 and the word "all" means all without exception is wrong. Therefore, the "all" in John 6:45 can only refer to "all" given by the Father who shall come to Christ (Jn. 6:37-39).
     

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