SBC and HCSB?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by DeclareHim, Aug 26, 2004.

  1. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim
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    If you post on this topic you are stating you believe the HCSB is the Word of God.

    I know the HCSB is an SBC Bible I was wondering how is it being accepted in the SBC?
     
  2. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    Simply replying to this thread implies no such thing, just for clarity's sake.

    Personally, I have found many Southern Baptists who have a problem with the way the HCSB has been presented. Most of these people who have voiced concern are people who have come out of the IFB movement to the SBC. They do not like the way the HCSB has been presented, ie., in the same rhetoric that KJVO's present the KJV. It has been a cause for concern with my wife and myself, also. It has become such a divisive issue in our SS class that my wife and I no longer attend it. We attend the services, but not the SS class. Our pastor still uses the NIV, or at least has been to our knowledge. We have been unable to attend services for the last four weeks.

    AVL1984
     
  3. Cix

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    HCSB is a good translation. Slightly more literal than the NIV. More readable than the NASB and ESV in my humble opinion.
     
  4. Cix

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    No doubt the evil one has been at work here. I like the HCSB, but if someone else like a different translation then all power to him. You could use the Message for all I care. It's a shame that some churches fall into the "onlyism" trap, whether it be KJV or others.
     
  5. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    I agree, Cix. It is clear that the adversary is out to destroy anything that can be used. I personally haven't taken a side on the issue. We just didn't like the fighting about the version. I have read several passages from the version, though I don't own a copy. I've seen the lessons in the materials we get from Lifeway for SS, and it seems to be a good reliable version. I wouldn't expect anything less from the SBC. I believe they truly are trying to keep people "on the same page" and have some kind of uniformity. But, when it becomes so divisive that it's distracting from the working of the Holy Spirit in the SS class or the church, it's time to step back from it, as we have done.
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Amen, Brother DeclarHim - Preach it! [​IMG]

    The Holman Christian Standard
    Bible (HCSB) is the very Word of God
    preserved by His Divine Providence unto
    this genernation of English Speakers in
    the 21st Century. I found the presentation
    HCSB presentation Bible in Mardel's
    (Christian book store chain) for under $5
    (before taxes). It doesn't have any study
    aids but it does have the HCSB text
    and the HCSB translator footnotes.
    The HCSB does honestly show the variation
    found between various sources for both
    the Old Testament and the New Testament.


    Strangely, in my Church you can't even get
    a conversation going about it. My church does
    use Lifeway (SBC) literature which does have
    both the HCSB lesson text and the KJV1769
    lesson text.

    The NIVs in the pews are
    not near worn out. They won't be replaced
    until somebody supplies HCSBs for the
    church. (our rug color has never been voted
    upon, somebody always donates the rugs
    of the color they wish -- voting with your $ [​IMG] )
    Anyway, the NIVs in the pew have the
    memorial and honor plates on the inside
    front cover, so they may stay in the
    back of the pews until they
    need to be rebound (even if HCSBs are added).

    The preacher, age 64, has memorized what
    seems like 1/3 of the Bible -- you guessed
    it, the KJV1769. So even if he reads from
    a modern version, he will tell what the
    KJV1769 says in the hard places (that he
    has memorized).

    The lady that teaches my Mother's old
    class (Mom moved) is like 86. If she
    has trouble with the reading from
    the new HCSB she will
    say something like "Read that again,
    but from the Real Bible", in other words,
    the KJV1769.

    In summary, my Southern Baptist Church
    is adapting to the HCSB. BTW, Like my
    salvation, I say "my" because it pertaineth
    to me, not because i own it. God owns
    and is the author of my Salvation -- i
    don't own my salvation, but it does pertain
    to me. My church i don't own, but i am
    a member of it. So I'm really not Southern
    Baptist, but I am a member of a local church
    which is a member of the Southern Baptist
    Convention (SBC). For shorhand i say i'm
    a SBC-ite.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. EaglewingIS4031

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    As a former NASB and NIV user I like it. But I guess it is marketed to people like me because it is intended to strike a balance between the NASB and NIV. I the NIV is used by my current pastor my old pastor (at another SBC church) used the NASB. I now use the HCSB to teach my SS class because it is in the lesson material. Our pew Bibles are NIV, so I bring HCSB to service as well.

    The ESV is also marketed to be between the NASB and NIV. But lean a little closer to the FE end of the spectrum. I like it to I bring it to church at night.

    My copy of the HCSB has great footnotes and something called Bullet notes which are helpfull. but it has no maps or a concordance.
    My ESV has great Maps and a concordance.
    Both are hard cover and I use bible covers of the slip over non-zippered variety.

    There are places and verses that I don't like in both versions, but I don't throw out babies with bath water.
    Ps 23:1,4,6 in the HCSB reads very similar to the Catholic NAB
    and Jn. 20:23 in the ESV is worded poorly also the footnotes for time referencs in John only leave one option. The HCSB and NASB offer 2 options.

    I don't Like the way the HCSB is marketed. Statements from prominent SBC leaders such as: "Now we we have a version we can controll" and the HCSB slogan: "Nothing Could be Closer to the Truth" bother me.
    Only 1/3 of the translatorsof the HCSB were Baptist.
    I think there were alot of Presbeterians on the ESV team. It is developing a reputation as a reform Bible. But I'm reformed.
     
  8. USN2Pulpit

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    It's being accepted well, and I believe it will continue to gain acceptance. As much as people involve themselves in the technical matters of the debate, the truth is that "we're just not used to it." That will change, and people will realize it for what it is - the Word of God.
     
  9. go2church

    go2church
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    As long as it is published in all the SS material it will eventually become the default bible, just like the NIV did. I have resisted the marketing (read jammed down your throat) of the HCSB, but I resist most marketing of bible translations, so that is nothing new. I use the ESV, even in the pew bibles now. We don't use the Lifeway material for adults, only preschool and children...for now. Hope to end all Lifeway usage eventually.
     
  10. USN2Pulpit

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    :eek: Heresy! ;)
     
  11. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    :eek: Heresy! ;) </font>[/QUOTE]LOL! Not really heresy. I have been glad to be away from much of Lifeways materials for a while. I'm not saying that they aren't any good, I'm just saying I don't like the marketing ploy of many things. I noticed that many IFB churches started doing this kind of thing with Way of Life literature, and other IFB writers, and many started putting in small bookstores in their churches to push their "onlyism" works. Guess churches are just becoming too commercial for some reason. Could it be the $$$$$ or is it to push their own agendas???

    AVL1984
     
  12. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim
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    I've been excited to see the SBC drop the NIV for the HCSB it is a much better translation I like how it reads better. More literal, reads smother, and doesn't have the outrageous fees to use it. I would have a problem also if the SBC pushes it like the IFB church does the KJV. But I don't think they'll ever do that. I think they are just excited to be using it and that it is such a good translation. How has it sold? Does anyone have the stats about it? I think it is much better than the NIV that is why I'm for it.

    1cross+3nails=4given
     
  13. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    DeclareHim, many of the churches in our area are already pushing it like the IFB does the KJV. Now, as a whole, I cannot speak for the convention, but I know many others from other parts of the country are saying that their churches (SBC) are doing the same. It would be a shame to see this thing get so blown out of proportion that the SBC splits again.

    AVL1984
     
  14. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
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    We're not pushing it here, but I feel it will gain wide acceptance as time goes by. And in the end, it will be worth the monitary expense for the SBC, not having to pay NIV royalties anymore.
     
  15. DeclareHim

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    Yes it would. And it is a shame. [​IMG] I think they got so excited because of the HCSB maybe its getting the best of them. Hopefully they will back away from this position maybe we need to be in prayer for the SBC.
     
  16. Bro.Bill

    Bro.Bill
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    So do you think there will be a study version soon?
     
  17. EaglewingIS4031

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    How about a HCSB with maps! A study bible is getting a little ahead of ourseves isn't it.
     
  18. Ziggy

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    Eaglewing: “I don't Like the way the HCSB is marketed.”

    Good point. The HCSB promoters in their exaggerated marketing hype actually state the following:

    "Holman Christian Standard bible(tm)
    the most accurate
    the most readable
    the most faithful
    translation ever published."

    Besides being arrogant in the extreme (and I suppose it has a further
    implication that we should all become HCSBO due to its unparalleled
    accuracy, readability, and faithfulness), this statement is nonsense.
    Why? Because it can easily be falsified.

    Allow me to present just three examples of HCSB translational problems
    from the perhaps hundreds that could be alleged:

    ======================================

    (1) The three-word phrase TAUTA LELALHKA hUMIN ("I have spoken these
    things to you") in Jn 14:25; 15:11; 16:1, 4, 6, 33; also Jn 16:25 TAUTA
    EN PAROIMIAIS LELALHKA hUMIN, "I have spoken these things in similitudes
    to you").

    These seven cases are the *only* NT occurrences of this particular
    phrase. The phrase therefore is "characteristically Johannine". Since
    all occurrences appear in relatively close context, any proper theory
    of translation should result in consistency of rendering, regardless of
    the particular rendering.

    Yet in the HCSB, one ends up with:

    Jn 14:25 - I have spoken these things to you
    Jn 15:11 - I have spoken these things to you
    Jn 16:1 - I have told you these things
    Jn 16:4 - I have told you these things
    Jn 16:6 - I have spoken these things to you
    Jn 16:25 - I have spoken these things to you
    Jn 16:33 - I have told you these things

    While they all "mean the same thing" in a dynamic equivalent sense,
    there are still unresolved problems regarding consistency of rendering.

    (a) In each case Jesus is speaking;

    (b) All these occurrences appear within a relatively close context,
    within the single-unit upper room discourse.

    It thus would seem that consistency of rendering should have been
    *mandatory* -- yet the HCSB (as well as most other translations,
    including the KJV!) drops the ball at this point.

    ======================================

    (2) Similarly, in Php 2:2 (this came up in a Sunday School lesson) the
    verb FRONEIN occurs twice and the HCSB renders each occurrence quite
    differently, with the latter meaning reflecting creative eisegesis at
    its best: the first occurrence in the verse, TO AUTO FRONHTE, is
    rendered "thinking the same way"; the second occurrence, TO hEN
    FRONOUNTES, is rendered "focusing on one goal". Whatever this is, it is
    not "translation" if by such we are to understand "accurate" and
    "faithful" as possessing any meaning. (I would note that the NKJV at
    this point retains translational consistency by reading "like-minded"
    and "of one mind").

    ======================================

    (3) One also should consider how the word IDOU (properly translated as
    "Behold!", "Look!" or "See!") is rendered in the HCSB. The interjection
    clearly derives from a verb of seeing (EIDON), and is in fact the
    imperative of such. But HCSB loses the sight concept by rendering it
    in some very different ways; a non-exhaustive list of examples follows:

    (a) "Listen!" (Mt 20:18; Mk 10:33; Lk 1:20; 1:31; 18:31; 1Co 15:51; Re
    3:20), even when the verb carries no connotation of hearing. The
    _proper_ command to listen (AKOUETE or AKOUSATE) is correctly
    translated when it occurs (e.g., Mt 13:18; 15:10; 17:5; 21:33;, Mk 4:3;
    7:14; 9:7; Lk 9:35; 18:6), but if Jesus at one point says AKOUETE and
    at another point says IDOU, does not Jesus himself make a distinction
    on this point that should have been respected and retained?

    (b) "Consider" (Mt 13:3; Mk 4:3; Lk 1:36,38), when contemplation is not
    a part of the connotation (the actual Greek verb for "consider"
    (KATANOHSATE) appears in Lk 12:24,27, and is correctly translated by
    the HCSB there);

    (c) "See" (a reasonably correct rendering): Mt 1:23; 23:38; Lk 13:35;

    (d) "there it was" (Mt 2:9), no comment needed.

    (e) totally omitted from translation and not reflected at all in the
    resultant translation (Mt 1:20; 2:1,13,19; 3:16,17, etc.)

    The level of "accuracy" for the HCSB seems to drop dramatically in
    light of these data. Basically, the HCSB crosses over much too far into
    dynamic equivalency, and thereby totally belies its advertising claims.

    Is the HCSB therefore "the most accurate" or "the most faithful"
    translation "ever published"?

    Give me a break.....
     

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