SBTS Theology Dean: Calvinism Obsessives Reminiscent of D&D Clubs

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jerome, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,635
    Likes Received:
    45
    Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Dean of Theology Russell Moore takes overly-fixated theological enthusiasts to task:

    Moore To the Point Blog (Aug. 29) Dungeons and Dragons and Doctrinal Debate
    Sound familar?
     
  2. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow! very disappointing coming from him. Quite sleazy
     
  3. Winman

    Winman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have always heard there are two things you should never discuss in public, religion and politics. I have found this good advice, folks have strong feelings on both, so there is always a good possibility you will find yourself in a heated debate with either subject. I doubt D & D has anything to do with it, although there is some truth that folks identify themselves by both their religion and political views and take disagreement personally.
     
  4. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,550
    Likes Received:
    213
    I've taken to task calvinists on this board who create threads that are derogatory towards non-calvinists; in the interest of fairness, I have to point out: It's somewhat shallow of us to do the same thing towards them.

    Does this belong in the Theology and Bible Study section? Or is this a topic for General Baptist discussion? And further, how will discussion of this subject clarify scripture, or edify us?
     
  5. SolaSaint

    SolaSaint
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,824
    Likes Received:
    25
    I kinda like being obsessed about scripture and the doctrines of grace. Better than being obsessed about purpose or vision.
     
    #5 SolaSaint, Sep 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2011
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    :thumbsup:

    1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the wicked, Nor standeth in the way of sinners, Nor sitteth in the seat of scoffers:
    2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah; And on his law doth he meditate day and night. Ps 1
     
  7. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    0
    amen wish that I had posted that!
     
  8. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    You all do realize that Dr. Moore is a Calvinist.

    I think that his point applies to anyone who always makes every argument about a particular doctrine. Sort of like the preacher who always had preached from Luke 2: 1. The miraculous Birth of Jesus 2. The Miraculous Purpose of Jesus Birth 3. Now a Word about Baptism.

    There are people on here who make every thread about the KJV or about how unloving conservatives are or how Obama is out to make Muslims of us all.

    The verses in Psalm 1 are about the law of the Lord in its entireity, not just the laws that we really like or are excited about. Salvation is about more than any system of soteriology.
     
  9. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've not seen you take a Calvinist "to task" over their Scriptural truths on this board. Ever.

    To the OP. D&D and calvinism similiraties? Talk about digging deep and under every rock to discredit truth. This OP takes the blue ribbon!
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    ....and that's exactly how I intended it.

    On another note, it amazes me that the OT Saints were able to derive that great 'delight' from the incomplete word of God as they did. They had only a fraction of what we have, and without the revelation of the NT. David said,"I rejoice at thy word, As one that findeth great spoil." It convinces me of the indwelling of the Spirit within the OT Saints; the Spirit HAD to be the source of the delight and joy in the law.
     
  11. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe "obsession" is not quite the right word, but I think I understand where Dr. Moore is coming from.

    I remember when I first discovered the Doctrines of Grace. I bought the whole package. I thought everybody should know about this wonderful discovery, and sort of became a nuisance. I asked my pastor about it (a non-Cal) and he really didn't want to talk about it. I asked the associate pastor (a non-Cal). His response was, "well, you can believe like a Calvinists,but you better preach like a Fundamentalist." (BTW, is now pastors a church which is fully Calvinist. Years afterward, he bought the package,too).

    I learned later that folks hated to see me coming.

    After I figured out that most folks were not as enamored with this new-found treasure as I was, I backed off somewhat.

    I've heard that other newly-minted DoGs have had reactions similar to mine.

    I've also found that whichever side you come down on, you can't do it dispassionately. Calvinism stirs emotions on both sides.

    You think Calvinists have an obsession with the doctrine? Read the Baptist Board. There are some non-Cals who seem to have an obsession with fighting it.
     
  12. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    I think this is great! I completely understand and appreciate the perspective the Dr. Moore is approaching the discussion from.
     
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,569
    Likes Received:
    276
    I resemble this acount you've given. I went through a 'militant' stage with it; I guess in some ways I felt as if I'd been lied to all my life. Anyway, I calmed down a whole lot when I came to the PBs; I had found a whole people that believed just as I, and also found I still yet had much to learn. Their preaching is amazing.
     
  14. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    If a non-Cal wrote what Dr. Moore wrote, most of us DoGs would pretty much brush it off. Since it a DoG writing about DoGs, maybe we ought to pay attention.
     
  15. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am shocked that so many would support such belittling and demeaning language from an institution of higher learning. Sad
     
  16. The Archangel

    The Archangel
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    2,444
    Likes Received:
    0
    An institution of higher learning is not about making its students feel comfortable and giving them the warm & fuzzies.

    Quite the contrary, the institution should confront, challenge, and, if necessary, chastise its students. As as alumnus of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, I can attest that SBTS does exactly what it needs to do.

    At Southern, there are those students who seek to make Calvinists out of everyone (notice: not "disciples"). There are students that think "J.C." stands for John Calvin, not Jesus Christ. There are students that, basically, turn into Calvinisers, not ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    In those cases, those students should be confronted, challenged, and chastised.

    Dr. Moore is one who takes his responsibility to mold and shape men into ministers very seriously. His article is an important and necessary corrective to many students of Scripture, not only at SBTS.

    The Archangel
     
  17. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    The way in which it is addressed is equally important. I know who Moore is and find this very disappointing as well as surprising. The comparison made to the D&D crowd is over the top, unnecessary and belittling.
     
  18. 12strings

    12strings
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't always agree with Dr. Moore on every issue, but I think what he has written here is not meant to be belittling in any way. He is simply using an "over the top" example (D&D) and a bit of humor to warn us not to be like that. It's simply the use of an illustration like any preacher would use in a sermon to make a point. He is not saying everyone who debates Calvinism on either side is just like a D&D fanatic, he's simply making a plea similar to the one usually attributed to Augustine: "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."

    Is the D&D illustration necessary. Maybe Not, but neither is ANY illustration in any sermon. Preachers could simply say: "Do not covet". But a few examples can really help the point sink in. Dr. Moore could have simply wrote a short twitter feed saying: Please be civil and respectful when discussing calvinism."

    ...but if he had...no one would notice it, and we wouldn't be discussing it now, would we?
     
  19. 12strings

    12strings
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    By they way, for an old example of Charity in the midst of strident disagreement, Please read this statement by John Wesley:

    http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/arminian/

    If it is too long, at least read the last Point (#12) on how we should relate to each other.

    -Andy

    DISCLAIMER: I am neither an arminian nor a weslyan. But John Wesley was a smart guy.
     
  20. 12strings

    12strings
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    On 2nd thought, here is the end of that article for those who don't like following links:

    (note the first sentence...can you believe an arminian would say that? :)

     

Share This Page

Loading...