Science in our public school systems

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by john6:63, May 5, 2003.

  1. john6:63

    john6:63
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    I’m a father of a 2 yr old and I myself was educated in a public school system as well as my wife. My wife and I study prophecy as a hobby and I have just recently started researching the “creation vs evolution” debate. This is a debate that for some reason never seemed that important to me, until I started to dig a little into it and was shocked at what I learned in science class was taught as “fact”, which I never questioned.

    If it’s at all possible my son will attended a Christian school or be “Home schooled” if I have to work 3 jobs. I will not allow my son to be taught that the earth “evolved” from some unknown substance and that the earth is billions of years old. He will not be exposed to the “theory” that he evolved from some monkey.

    Science in the public school systems is my only complaint. The devil is laughing at how easily he has deceived us in this area. Evolution is a RELIGON and is being taught in our public school systems. How is evolution a religion? It’s not proven as fact. The evolutionists have to take their theory on “faith.”

    I’m not one to judge, but woe to the science teacher who drives a child from his belief that God is the creator of the heavens and earth and that He created man in His image. If you’re a science teacher and consider yourself a Christian, find another line of work!

    Now, I can see the responses now. “If I were to raise my child in a good Christian home and he has a good religious foundation and involved in a good Church, I shouldn’t have a problem with my son in a public school.” And I say yep you’re could be right. As I said above I was raised in a public school system and I still believe in God, but I just recently discovered that the earth isn’t billions of years old, which I was taught in school. It will bother me to know that my son will have to answer those questions concerning the “big bang” and evolution, just to pass the class. It will be like what he’s taught at Church and at home is a lie.

    Thousands of Jews were persecuted during the Roman Empire. The Romans didn’t care what God they worshipped as long as the Jews knelt down and professed that Creaser was their lord. I know this is extreme, but our children in a public school system will not pass science unless they knell and profess evolution as being fact, nor will they while in college get a letter of recommendation into medical school unless they acknowledge evolution as fact. A man at our church came from Russia, he graduated but didn’t get a diploma, b/c he believed in creation.
     
  2. Headcoveredlady

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    I just wanted to say I agree with what you have said and I am glad that you are thinking about this now while your child is 2. Have you been over to the homeschool section yet?
     
  3. Johnv

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    I’m not one to judge, but woe to the science teacher who drives a child from his belief that God is the creator of the heavens and earth and that He created man in His image.

    Evolution doesn't drives children from a belief that God is the creator. Creationists make evolution out to do so, thus breaking the biblical command to refrain from gossip and rumors.

    All science does is look at the evidence at hand and develop a model of who it happenned. It does not attempt to explain whodunnit. Creationists attemt to say that, since evolution doesn't address the creator, they must be against him, which is simply not the case.
     
  4. USN2Pulpit

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    uh-oh...
     
  5. Charlesga

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    Honestly, I would not let this issue alone decide whether or not to send my children to public schools. Regardless of your position on creation vs evolution, we must accept that evolution is a valid arguement from a scientific perpspective. Does that mean you should believe it? NO! Does that mean your children should not be exposed to it? No as well....let them learn it, but be there for them to put it into context, and I believe they will be ok. I believe they need to know what others believe so that they can defend their position someday.

    By the way, I know Christians that believe in evolution, and they are no less of a Christian for doing so.

    My take on the whole debate is this: God did it, however He chose to do it, therefore it is settled with me. It's all about God!

    Charles
     
  6. Johnv

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    My take on the whole debate is this: God did it, however He chose to do it, therefore it is settled with me. It's all about God!

    AMEN to that [​IMG]
     
  7. Thankful

    Thankful
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    I agree with Charlesga and Johnv!

    HCL is correct you should plan ahead for your child's education.

    I do have a question about the following statement
    Isn't this taught as a theory not as a fact?

    I have read my granddaughter's essay giving her belief of the creation vs. evoluation on which she made an A and she is graduating from high school this year. (She believes in creation)

    She is planning to take pre-med at Oklahoma Baptist University. Will she have to say, she believes in evolution as a fact to graduate....

    I don't think so, but I would like to know.
     
  8. john6:63

    john6:63
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    Thankful

    When it came to questions of evolution in her science class she had to go against her belief in creation to pass a few of those tests. Evolution in school is taught as a theory, but it’s presented in a way as its fact. Take a look at your grandkids science books or better yet visit your local library and read a 2nd grade science book. You’ll be surprised the junk there pushing on our kids. No, I’m not saying that ALL science is bad. There are a lot of talented scientists and doctors who believes in creation. A friend of mind questioned his faith while in college, actually high school and is now an atheist.

    My wife couldn’t get a recommendation to enter dental school from any of her organic chemistry professors’ b/c she refused to explain her theory of evolution. She told him that she believed in creation and he refused to recommend her. Did she have to go against her views of creation to pass a few tests, yes she did and she struggled with that. But when it came down to picking between evolution and creation, she chose creation. A professor or teacher can’t threaten a student to pick between what he/she believes in just to satisfy their ego.

    Here is a link to a professors website where he will not recommend a student if he/she believes in creation.
    recommendation

    Now listen to this creationist’s evangelism Dr. Hovind's. He taught science for 15 years.
    creation evagelism
     
  9. john6:63

    john6:63
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    The creationist view of origins reflects an intuitive sense that life really does have meaning. Evolutionists are betting their convictions about ultimate reality on the “assumption” that their worldview is correct. Ultimate reality is material (matter), not spiritual (God). And if there is no God who created us, there is no God who judges us.
    We are dealing with ultimate issues of origins (naturalistic evolution vs. divine creation) and final destiny (extinction vs. heaven or hell).

    There is no evidence is out there that supports the theory of Macro evolution? I’m a believer of “evolution” myself…..”Micro Evolution”

    “Micro evolution” which means that a species can evolve within a species “Dog” “Coyote” “Wolf” for an example. Micro evolution has been observed and is fact. You can’t and will never get a cat from a dog! Science teachers without knowing it will teach “micro evolution” and without noticing it will “blend” “micro evolution” with “macro evolution” with “cosmic evolution”…..without realizing that they maybe causing a kid question his faith that God did in fact create this earth as well as you and I. This earth isn’t billion of years old. The flood of Noah’s time was 4400 years ago. Adam lived to be 900+ years old. If the earth was billions of years old, we’d be in a tremendous population crisis.

    If they’re going to teach evolution in school, they better teach creation as well and allow the student to “make-up” his or her mind. Evolution is being force fed to kids from 1st to college. We as taxpayers are funding this “false religion” of evolution and the god of evolution is “time.” Talk to any evolutionists’ scientist and he will declare that given enough “time” anything can evolve.
     
  10. Johnv

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    This already happens. Most school cirriculums touch on varying theories on origins of species. But the bulk of the study is on the most generally accepted theories. Right now the most generally accepted theories (there are several) are all evolutionary in nature.
     
  11. KeeperOfMyHome

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    When my twins were in 2nd grade, they learned about dinosaurs . . . and of course the material they used plainly stated that the world is millions of years old. I promptly went to the school to inquire about this and was promptly told that it was indeed being taught as fact! I was blown away! No being taught that is is a theory! No being taught that there were possibly other options!

    At our local high school, my sister had to take biology over during the summer because she refused to go against what she believed (creation) and write what she considered to be false answers (what she'd be taught about evolution) on her tests and assignments. The teacher for the class is an athiest and refused to ever even consider creation.

    Julia
     
  12. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    I am a science teacher in the public school system.

    I am also a Christian. Teaching science is an absolute blessing to me.

    I do not teach that humans came from "a monkey". I have taught from a wide variety of books and none of them make this claim.

    I do not teach that the earth "evolved from some unknown substance. None of the books I teach from claim this and I do not believe it myself.

    I do not teach that that the earth is billions of years old. The books that I teach from do make this hypothesis and I refute it.

    If I could just get fundamentalists Christians and homeschoolers to understand that teaching science, as a Christian, is a joy and a blessing.

    When the topic of the origins of the universe and of man do come up, I get the Gideon Bibles from our library and pass them out. We do a comparative analysis and see what is different and what is similar.

    My students know that I am a Christian and that I believe the Bible. Ninety-nine percent of them respect that in me and appreciate that in me.

    And as a science teacher, they think that I am pretty doggone awesome.

    We are not the heathens that you think we are. And we are not brainwashing your kids.

    Homeschool if you like, it's between you and God. And if he calls you to do it, then you had better do it! I have no qualms about people who feel that God leads them in that direction.

    But remember, God called me, too.

    Peace-

    YSIC
    Scarlett O. [​IMG]
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  13. Helen

    Helen
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    I applaud john6:63 for his stand. However it is not just science that is getting the treatment in public schools, but history and English as well.

    However, I taught in both public and private venues for almost 30 years. Christian teachers are desperately needed in the public school system to help those Christian or curious kids see that there is an option in life. There ARE ways to teach science students to think for themselves, and that, really, is just about all it takes... [​IMG]

    Evolution is not a religion -- it is a way of interpretating data which is BASED on a religion: the religion of secular humanism.

    And yes, evolution IS taught as fact and there have already been teachers whose contracts have not been renewed simply because they presented material from evolution-oriented peer-reviewed journals which pointed out some problems which needed to be recognized in the area of evolution. So it is not only taught as fact, it is a sacred cow in public education.

    This business of saying "I don't care how God did it," or "He could do it any way He wanted to" is to slip-slide around the fact that although, of course, both of those statements may be true, the fact is that He told us how He did it in Genesis -- and that book is referenced over and over again by other authors of the Bible books as well as by Jesus Himself. Always it is referenced as the plain historical truth, which is exactly how it presents itself.

    So to teach children that something presented as fact in God's Word is actually 'parable', or 'mythology,' or 'allegorical,' is to teach them they cannot trust what they are reading in God's Word, but must make excuses for it in light of 'science' today. Baloney! The more I have learned, first as a teacher and now as a science editor, the more I am convinced that Genesis says exactly what it means and means exactly what it says. And we can count on God's ability not only to know the truth Himself, but to be able to communicate clearly and concisely to us human beings, with our incredibly finite minds and our bare scrapings of knowledge (when one considers all there is to be known).

    Teach the child that God can be trusted to communicate correctly, and that our knowledge is slowly but surely starting to understand that.

    It is very, very wise to teach your children the way you want them taught until they are old enough (some time in high school) to start thinking for themselves. Then, our choice was to put them in the public high school system and let them go through culture shock when they could return home everyday and talk out what was on their minds.

    Lastly, I would have to say from personal experience with teaching that there is NOTHING which causes more doubt about Christianity and the Bible in a student's mind that continual brainwashing indoctrination concerning evolution. That is probably the single most damaging part of any subject taught in any school for Christian kids when it is taught year after year by the 'true believers' in it.
     
  14. Larry in Tennessee

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    Helen, I agree with you completely. What scares me is that it seems that the secular humanists have taken over the public education of our children. I don't like to have evolution taught to my children, but I believe the damage can be undone with love, and by reaffirming what God's Word says.

    What really scares me to death is the sex education that is being taught in the schools. They are teaching the mechanics, without the morals, and in many schools they are giving out free birth control devices to children. The schools are playing with fire, by doing this, but it seems to by expanding. It's really frightening.

    Love in Christ,
    Larry
     
  15. Johnv

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    Larry,

    While our opinion differ regarding evolution, we certainly agree on sex education. I don't have a problem teaching basic sexual reproduction at an age appropriate level (jr high). But by the time high school rolls around, I believe it should be necessary to learn the dangers of extramarital sexual activity.

    But, more than that, formal education should be topped off with proper home education. If we as parents are leaving all the instruction up to the schools (whether that school be private or public, whether they are doing a poor job or great job), then we usurp our biblical obligation of teaching our children.
     
  16. Jim H.

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    Johnv said;

    All science does is look at the evidence at hand and develop a model of who it happenned. It does not attempt to explain whodunnit. Creationists attemt to say that, since evolution doesn't address the creator, they must be against him, which is simply not the case.

    Johnv, I wish this were the case, but it ain't even close. If all science did was "look at the evidence", the evidence of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, the law of Bio-genesis, and the laws of probability would rule out evolution without breaking a sweat.

    Creationists attemt to say that, since evolution doesn't address the creator, they must be against him, which is simply not the case.


    You haven't read any Asimov, Gould, Crick, or Dawkins stuff, have you.

    In Him,
    Jim
     
  17. Peter101

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    You mention the laws of thermodynamics as ruling out evolution. Authors of textbooks on thermodynamics do not agree. They think that creationists are mistaken with this argument. See the following web site:

    http://www.ntanet.net/Thermo-Internet.htm
     
  18. Johnv

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    That arguement goes no where, since a six day creation violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, the law of Bio-genesis.

    The law of probability is not a scientific law. It's a mathematical one.
     
  19. Peter101

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    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Here is a link to a professors website where he will not recommend a student if he/she believes in creation.

    Now listen to this creationist’s evangelism Dr. Hovind's. He taught science for 15 years.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    I suspect that the instances are rare in which anyone is denied a recommendation because of their disbelief in evolution. In regard to "Dr" Kent Hovind, you should know that he has a degree from a diploma mill, not in science, and that he is not qualified to teach science. He also has had a number of legal problems, with the IRS, which suggests that he ought not to be held up as an example of virtue.
     
  20. Deacon

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    The evolutionary philosophies that are pushed by the National Science Foundation are defiantly antichristian (see white paper @ http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~ecolevol/fulldoc.html ). Yet there are school districts that are not beholden to the NEA and various such “liberal” groups.

    I won’t push a choice between home schooling and public schooling: each have pluses and minuses that need to be carefully added up before making a decision. My feeling is that once a commitment to one type of education is made, it should be followed through to the end. I have rarely seen instances of switching from one to the other that have worked successfully.

    Learning the basic sciences in public school is a battle. It will teach your child to think and stand up for what is right.

    Probe ministries has some interesting articles on some of the battlefields.
    Here's one on teaching evoloution: http://www.probe.org/docs/cr-evol.html


    Rob
     

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