Scriptures that Teach Particular Redemption !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    This thread will be dedicated to showing forth the Truth of particular redemption, and that is what the scripture Teaches. To deviate from this revealed Truth is another gospel !

    We will start with Matt 1:21

    21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    If He is the Jesus of the scripture, or this Jesus here Rom 3:26

    To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Then His Purpose was to save His People from their sins, and that's it. Nothing can be more plainer from scripture testimony here of Matt 1:21
     
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    I do not know what can be more plainer than Matt 1:21 as to the biblical proof of who Christ came to save exclusively, His People.

    Now who are these His People ? No its not the whole world of mankind.

    His People are defined in many different ways in scripture, but I will by the Grace of God show just who they are from scripture.

    They are His Church, His Body, for He and His Body are One !

    Col 1:18

    And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Notice that scripture says He is the Head. This word is the greek word kephalē and means:


    the head, both of men and often of animals. Since the loss of the head destroys life, this word is used in the phrases relating to capital and extreme punishment.

    2) metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent

    a) of persons, master lord: of a husband in relation to his wife

    b) of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church

    c) of things: the corner stone

    The Persons that He is the Head of are His People !

    Next, it mentions His Body, this is the greek word sōma and means:

    the body both of men or animals

    a) a dead body or corpse

    b) the living body

    1) of animals

    2) the bodies of planets and of stars (heavenly bodies)

    3) is used of a (large or small) number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body

    a) so in the NT of the church

    4) that which casts a shadow as distinguished from the shadow itself


    So His People are those Men that constitute His Body !

    And finally we have the Church, which greek word is ekklēsia which means:

    a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly

    a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating

    His People is an assembly of people !

    Heb 2:12

    Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

    That word brethren is the greek word adelphos


    having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman



    So, it is quite appropriate to understand His People in Matt 1:21 as His Body the Church !
     
  3. Moriah

    Moriah
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    Jesus came for His people first! Jesus is God in the flesh. God’s people were the Jews. Jesus came for the Jews. Salvation had to be offered to the Jews firstly. The Jews were God’s people. The Jews were the ones who had the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. See Romans 9.

    I hope that you will accept the Truth and give up the false doctrines of Calvinism.

    John 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

    Jesus came to his own, THE JEWS, but they did not receive him.

    John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

    Jesus came first for the Jews. After Jesus was lifted up from the earth, all men have a chance to be reconciled to God through him.

    John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
     
    #3 Moriah, Feb 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2012
  4. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Well, let's try Isaiah 53:11
    Now there would be general agreement that the penalty of the broken law, and God's justice, were satisfied in Christ's death. The question is, for whom?

    If it is for all without exception, then God cannot be just in condemning anyone. Justice has been satisfied. Otherwise, there are people in Hell for whom Christ died.

    Then, in this same passage, Isaiah writes:
    God justifies by bearing the sins of many. In other words, if Christ had to bear men's iniquities to justify them, then those whose iniquities he bore must be justified.
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Now, let's see about John 15:13
    If Christ laid down his life for every man without exception, then he exhibited the greatest love for every man. He loves those who go to Hell as much as those he saves.

    If the objects of His greatest love, for whom God's justice has been satisfied, go to Hell anyway, we've got a problem here, don't we.
     
  6. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    One more before I hit the sack:
    Acts 20:28
    Now specifically, Paul is speaking to the elders from FBC Ephesus, and specifically says that Jesus purchased those believers with his own blood. So it's clear that Paul is saying that Jesus died for those who are saved and will be saved--the elect.

    Well, two more:
    In Ephesians 5:25, Paul says Christ loved the church and gave himself for IT.

    Just as a husband loves a specific wife, so Christ has a specific target of his love: his church.
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Thanks Tom you have made some good points !
     
  8. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    HP: How simple is the plain truth of Scripture that God sent His Son into the world for the express purpose of offering salvation to all that would hear and receive, and that is NOT only the elect. Many hear and sadly reject the messsage, and others simply have never heard.
     
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    John 3:16 is often just jerked out of its context and thrown into the discussion. There is absolutely no indication that Jesus is still not speaking to Nicodemus and indeed verse 12 proves that He is "If I have told YOU....."

    Why does Christ begin with the need of new birth before presenting this Jewish Rabbi with the gospel?

    How did the Jewish Rabbi's understand and use the term "world"?

    The flow of Christ's conversation goes like this

    (1) you need to be born again; - Jn. 3:1-12;

    (2) you need to hear my witness of Who I am and what I have come into the world to do; - Jn. 2:13-16;

    (3) you need to know how you came into this world - condemned already and your spiritual condition confirms it - Jn. 3:17-20;

    (4) Only God can change you - Jn. 3:21 (back to original subject - new birth)
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    More on who are His People !

    Its no mistake that Matt 1:21 gives us to know that Jesus came to save a particular group, His People !

    We have showed thus far that The People that are His is the Church !

    Another designation for exactly who His People are whom He shall save is His Seed !

    Christ was given a Seed, Isaiah makes mention of it here Isa 53:10

    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    This word seed is the hebrew word zera`:


    seed, sowing, offspring

    a) a sowing

    b) seed

    c) semen virile

    d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children

    e) of moral quality

    1) a practitioner of righteousness (fig.)

    f) sowing time (by meton)

    And it means in the context, His offspring, or descendants, children !

    And so these Offspring of Christ, this Posterity of His are His People. We know already that this Offspring cannot be Physical Offspring, or Descendants , but Spiritual !

    Its the same seed that is said shall serve Him Ps 22:30-31

    30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

    31They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

    Thats His People of Matt 1:21 A Seed that should be born Spiritually !
     
  11. Tom Butler

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    Revelation 5:9 is an interesting passage:
    John is recording the words of the 24 elders and the four living creatures. Note that they did not say that Jesus redeemed every tribe, etc. They said his death redeemed FROM every tribe, tongue, people and nation.

    Just thought I'd throw this into the mix.
     
  12. Tom Butler

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    Here's the problem with a general atonement:

    It provides no real satisfaction of God's justice or it involves punishing those for whom God's justice has been satisfied.

    Someone will surely argue that Jesus suffered for the sins of all men, and that those in Hell are suffering only for the sin of unbelief.

    The problem with that is that it leaves those who have never heard the gospel with nothing to be punished for. (See Romans 2:12)

    And, if Jesus died for all, then he atoned for the sin of unbelief of all men, leaving those in Hell with nothing to suffer for.

    This is an interesting thought. If Jesus did not atone for the sin of unbelief, then I'm in trouble, because I was in a state of unbelief (and so was everybody on the BB) until salvation came. Even though the I confessed Christ as Lord, that earlier sin of unbelief is still out there, un-atoned for. Do I need to worry?
     
  13. Moriah

    Moriah
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    Calvinist teachers have so indoctrinated you that you cannot see straight. God can forgive you for the sin of unbelief, when you confess of it.
     
  14. Moriah

    Moriah
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    We are not born again unless we have the Spirit of God. We do not receive the Spirit of God until we believe. Nowhere do the scriptures say we cannot believe after learning of Jesus, NOWHERE. The scriptures tell us we receive the Holy Spirit AFTER we BELIEVE AND OBEY.

    Acts 5:30-32 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead---whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

    "...the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

    John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
     
  15. Moriah

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    They have to repent! We must believe and repent.
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    Those He forknew !



    Another scripture that tells us who Christ People are that He shall save, its those whom God foreknew Rom 11:1-2

    1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

    Those foreknown are all those that are that seed given to Christ in Election before the foundation Eph 1:4

    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Rom 8:29

    29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    They were His Many Brethren Spiritually, not physical jews, but Spiritual Jews , Abraham's Spiritual Seed, all those that had been predestined to be conformed to His Image !

    All whom belong to Christ, whether jew or gentile are Abraham's Seed and Heirs Gal 3:29

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    So His People belong to Him, and they are the foreknown !

    We know all people without exception are those who Christ foreknew, because He will tell many this Matt 7:23

    23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    BTW, Many deceived people believe that Abraham's Physical descendants according to the flesh are Christ's People, but they are not, because considered merely as his flesh descendants, they are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    And none who are not the Children of God are Christ's People , it does not matter if Abraham was your personal natural Father !
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    Those He forknew ! cont

    Those foreknown, God's People, Christ's People whom scripture promises He shall save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, these are all who God foreknew in Christ Eph 1:4 and who had a Representative Being in Him from Eternity. They did not have a actual being as yet, but a Representative being, however their Surety, The Lord Jesus Christ did have a a actual Being. We know that they had a Representative Being in their Mediator Christ Jesus, simply because the scripture teaches that they had Grace given them in Him, before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

    9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    These are those God foreknew, His People Rom 11:2

    2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
     
  18. savedbymercy

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    For the Transgressions of My People !



    Isa 53:8

    He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    This is another scripture that reveals the Truth of Limited Atonement and specifically who Christ did die for ! It was for God's People, His Covenant People. Isaiah believed the True Gospel, all the True Prophets did, in fact, He preached the True Gospel as well. It was revealed to him as it is to all True Believers who Christ came to save and did save, His People Matt 1:21.

    How did Isaiah understand vs 8 here ? Who would he consider God's People for whom this Servant of Jehovah would die for ? Would he had understood it to include the egyptians as God's People ? What about the Edomites. Would Isaiah think of them as God's People ? No he would not, Isaiah believed in a Preached a Limited and Particular Atonement. That " My people" of vs 8 is also the same as His Seed vs

    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    It was for a People that God chose in Christ before the foundation of the world. Their Transgressions were never imputed to them, but imputed to Christ, so that He may die for them !
     
  19. billwald

    billwald
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    Anyone who IS saved is saved by God aka Jesus. God aka Jesus can save anyone he chooses. This may include Mormons who have been fooled by the LDS.
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    And I agree that God can forgive the sin of unbelief. But God's justice must be satisfied, and the scriptures clearly tell us that the death of the Lord Jesus satisfied Him. (Isa 53:11)

    From this I conclude that if Jesus death did atone for the sin of unbelief, then God's justice is not satisfied. Because someone must die for every sin. No sin goes unpunished. Either Jesus took the punishment for us or we'll take it ourselves.

    Yes, repentance and faith save us, but in order for God to save us, someone else must take the punishment.

    I suppose God can save anybody he wants to, but it seems clear to me that if he can, and does, then there was no need for Jesus to die on the cross.
     

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