SDA prophet's "inspired" writings

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by targus, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some of the SDA prophet's "inspired" writings....

    Desire Of Ages, Page 131.2
    "Never can the cost of our redemption be realized until the redeemed shall stand with the Redeemer before the throne of God. Then as the glories of the eternal home burst upon our enraptured senses we shall remember that Jesus left all this for us, that He not only became an exile from the heavenly courts, but for us took the risk of failure and eternal loss."

    Whaaaa?

    Jesus risked loss of his eternal life?

    Is this belief consistent with a belief in the TRUE Trinity?
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Read Hebrews 5 much?


    6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
    8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;



    How about Hebrews 4??

    15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

    Matt 4? anyone???

    4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

    James 1 anyone ??

    13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

    Because Jesus "emptied Himself" (Phil 2) to become man -- He could indeed hunger, thirst, tire, fall beneath the weight of the cross, AND be tempted.

    =================

    As we see in the "sola scriptura" test above - the doctrine that fails that test of scripture - is the one that wildly claims that Jesus never risked anything, and was never really tempted.

    More Bible - less smoke.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #2 BobRyan, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013
  3. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    No one here doubts that Satan attempted to tempt Jesus.

    However you forgot to provide the verses that say that God the Father would have annihilated Jesus if he had sinned.

    That is one of Ellen White's teachings isn't it?
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    No Bible text says "Satan attempted to tempt - but could not for Jesus could not be tempted since he was God?

    Rather the actual Bible says that HE was tempted in ALL points as we are YET without sin.

    So I am not saying you cannot make stuff up to the contrary - after all you have free will.

    But I warn you that there are a tonne of "make stuff up" religions in the world. I think you should stick with the Bible instead.

    More Bible - less smoke.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    An yet again you forgot to provide the verses that say that God the Father would have annihilated Jesus if he had sinned.

    That is one of Ellen White's teachings isn't it?
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    I think you meant to post that one to yourself -- you forgot to quote anyone saying anything about 'annihilated Jesus'.

    But I DID quote the Bible on the subject of the REAL temptation of Jesus in "ALL points as we are" - directly refuting your much imagined "Jesus took no risks" story.

    As I said - if you stick with the actual Bible your view comes out better.

    More Bible - less smoke.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you denying that the SDA teaches that God the Father would have annihilated Jesus if Jesus had sinned?

    What "risk" did Jesus take?

    If you really believe in SDA teachings why do you dance around them?
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,126
    Likes Received:
    207
    Ellen G. White is a documented false prophetess and therefore her teachings are the doctrines of devils and it is this "spirit" that is behind the SDA demonination:

    I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: ‘Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain on earth at the coming of Jesus.” – Testimonies, Vol. 1, p. 131 [emphasis mine]

    My accompany angel said, ‘Time is almost finished. Get ready, get ready, get ready….now time is almost finished….and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months.” – Early Writings, pp. 64-67 [emphases mine]

    In 1846 Mrs. White claimed to have had a vision of the solar system. Mrs. Truesdail, a dedicated and sincere Adventist, was present during this vision. She describes how Mrs. White saw a “tall, majestic people” living on either Jupiter or Saturn:

    Sister White was in very feeble health, and while prayers were offered in her behalf, the Spirit of God rested upon us. We soon noticed that she was insensible to earthly things. This was her first view of the planetary world. After counting aloud the moons of Jupiter, and soon after those of Saturn, she gave a beautiful description of the rings of the latter. She then said, ‘The inhabitants are a tall, majestic people, so unlike the inhabitants of earth. Sin has never entered there.’” – Taken from Mrs. Truesdale’s letter written January 27, 1981 [emphasis mine]

    False prophetess are led by demonic spirits producing false doctrines and false denominations as the same "spirit of error" is behind all of this.


    She is also a documented plagiarist

    Even SDA scholars now admit that as much as 90% of Ellen G White’s writings (that she claimed to have received directly from God), were in fact stolen from other writings:

    Much has been written on Mrs. White’s extensive plagiarism of the writings of others. Prior to the publication of Walter Rea’s the White lie in 1983, Adventists maintained that 8% to 10% of Mrs. White’s work was copied. The SDA church hired Adventist scholar Dr. Fred Veltman to examine the Desire of the Ages and he found 30% or more, depending upon the chapter examined. After great expense and almost eight years of research, that depending upon the material examined, the copy work could be as much as 90% Dr. Veltman noted – Ministry, Dec. 1990, p. 11
     
    #8 The Biblicist, Jun 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2013
  9. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bumped for BobRyan...

    Still curious as to what "risk" Jesus took.

    What would the cost to Jesus have been had he sinned or "failed"?

    What "eternal loss" would Jesus experience if he sinned?

    What is the SDA teaching in this area?

    If SDA's are not ashamed of their beliefs why do they hide them?
     
    #9 targus, Jun 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2013
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,023
    Likes Received:
    47
    Jesus is God, so is there EVER a chance God can fail or lose ANYTIME?
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,023
    Likes Received:
    47
    again, the SDA claims bible primary authority, but really its the prophetess!
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Read Hebrews 5 much?


    6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
    8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;



    How about Hebrews 4??

    15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

    Matt 4? anyone???

    4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

    James 1 anyone ??

    13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

    Because Jesus "emptied Himself" (Phil 2) to become man -- He could indeed hunger, thirst, tire, fall beneath the weight of the cross, AND be tempted.

    =================

    As we see in the "sola scriptura" test above - the doctrine that fails that test of scripture - is the one that wildly claims that Jesus never risked anything, and was never really tempted.

    More Bible - less smoke.


    God never gets tired according to the Bible, never hungry, never weak, never can be tempted.

    but the Bible says Jesus suffered and endured ALL of that. And this is made possible by his choice as noted in Phil 2 to empty himself of the use of those powers. Satan comes to him in Matt 4 tempting him to use the very God powers you claim he WAS using. And Jesus stood up to Satan - and refused to do as Satan tempted him to do - to use his god-powers to solve his problem.

    More Bible - less smoke.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    And yet again BobRyan doesn't answer clear and direct questions...

    Still curious as to what "risk" Jesus took.

    What would the cost to Jesus have been had he sinned or "failed"?

    What "eternal loss" would Jesus experience if he sinned?

    What is the SDA teaching in this area?

    If SDA's are not ashamed of their beliefs why do they hide them?
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    And still Targus avoids the Bible statements on this topic "At all costs" when the Bible says that Christ WAS tempted and Targus flatly denies it.

    Then Appears to flatly ignore the fact that everyone know that with temptation comes risk.

    Obviously.

    I suppose some of us are supposed to ignore the details that the rest of us will not if the purpose is to promote vacuous accusations.


    More Bible --- less smoke please.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    And yet again BobRyan doesn't answer clear and direct questions...

    Still curious as to what "risk" Jesus took.

    Define it... spell it out... details please.

    What would the cost to Jesus have been had he sinned or "failed"?

    What "eternal loss" would Jesus experience if he sinned?

    What is the SDA teaching in this area?

    If SDA's are not ashamed of their beliefs why do they hide them?
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    And still --

    The obvious nature of the point is the fact of temptation, the fact that temptation always involves risk to be avoided.

    the depth of the risk is not necessary to speculate - in order to first admit to the fact that temptation involves risk. Thus your argument fails before you even get to the part of speculating about the risk that you cannot admit to - no matter the Bible texts contrary to your idea.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    But your cult does speculate on the depth of the risk doesn't it?

    "All would have been lost and He would have suffered "eternal loss," the loss of all He ever possessed - His divinity and His humanity and heaven itself would have been "lost - eternally lost," - C.O.L. p 196.

    The dirty little secret that you are trying to hide here is the SDA beliefs concerning Jesus and the Trinity.

    How would Jesus have lost "His divinity" if he sinned?

    Come on BobRyan, stop being ashamed of SDA beliefs and put it all out there in the light so that we may all see them.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    You speculate that no matter what the Bible says to the contrary - there is NO RISK in temptation.

    Sadly the Bible does not show that such wild speculation is supported by fact.

    The reason that Satan does not "tempt" you to turn stones into bread - is because you are not God - you cannot create life by your own WORD.

    It would be no temptation to you - and he does not tempt you with it.


    ========

    6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
    8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;



    How about Hebrews 4??

    15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

    Matt 4? anyone???

    4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

    James 1 anyone ??

    13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

    Because Jesus "emptied Himself" (Phil 2) to become man -- He could indeed hunger, thirst, tire, fall beneath the weight of the cross, AND be tempted.

    ===

    More Bible - less smoke.



    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. targus

    targus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    8,459
    Likes Received:
    0
    BobRyan, you continue to dodge the question...

    And EVERYONE on the board can see it.

    You are ashamed of and want to hide SDA beliefs - that can be the only reason why you will not answer a direct question.

    I will ask again so that everyone can again watch you dodge and evade...


    "All would have been lost and He would have suffered "eternal loss," the loss of all He ever possessed - His divinity and His humanity and heaven itself would have been "lost - eternally lost," - C.O.L. p 196.

    How would Jesus have lost "His divinity" if he sinned?
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Your entire - no-bible-ever approach to this rejection of the Bible teaching about Prophecy in 1Cor 14:1 and 1Cor 12 and in 1Thess 5:19-20 and Isaiah 30:8-11 is based on your rejection of the bible teaching that temptation is real and involves real risk.

    Less smoke please. More Bible please.

    While I on the other hand am free to accept both of these Bible doctrines. And you are left whining that I am not engaged in some specific as to just how far risk goes - as if you are some sort of inspired source that while neglecting all of scripture posted here - is someone somehow is to be trust to know how much risk is in temptation and the line where risk cannot go.

    You need some sort of plan that is a bit less based on on "you quoting you" and 'you" being the standard for risk.

    in the open market place of ideas it is important to go beyond name-calling and "quoting yourself".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #20 BobRyan, Jun 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2013

Share This Page

Loading...