Seen by the Twelve?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Inquiring Mind, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
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    1 Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
    5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
    6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
    7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
    8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

    Who is the mysterious 12th person? It can't be Matthias, since he was not a member of the twelve until after Christ ascended.
     
  2. Blammo

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    Matthias saw Christ after he rose again, and, at the time this was written, Matthias was one of the twelve.

    (Just a thought)
     
  3. Scarlett O.

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    Well, perhaps it's a collective term, not necessarily implying a specific number, just a collective body.

    When the bible says "then he appeared unto the twelve", everybody knows who he appeared to. The "twelve", not implying number, but his inner circle is what is meant here, to me.

    Also, supporting that, it says that he was seen of Cephas (Peter), then of the twelve, which on the surface, to a person ignorant of the bible, could possibly imply that Peter was not of the twelve.

    So, I think it's just a collective term implying the organization or body of the disciples and not a roll call.
     
  4. Inquiring Mind

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    When did Matthias see Jesus with the other 11?
     
  5. Inquiring Mind

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    Paul is giving a chronological account.
     
  6. Inquiring Mind

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    I would agree with that assessment.
     
  7. Inquiring Mind

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    Paul was being quantitative as well as chronological.
     
  8. Blammo

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    Acts 1:21-23 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
     
  9. gekko

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    matthias was not one of the twelve. if you keep reading throughout the NT - God did not accept matthias as one of the twelve because God was not the one who chose hom. again if you keep reading it ends up being Paul that the Lord chose.
     
  10. Amy.G

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    Hello Gekko,
    what scripture are you referring to that says that God did not accept Matthias? As I read Acts 1:15 thru 1:26 it certainly seems to say that God did accept Matthias referring to prophecy being fulfilled in verse 20. Was not Paul the apostle to the gentiles?
    Blessings
     
  11. J. Jump

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    If the "group" was the focus then it would have been stated as such or the number 10 would have been used not the number 12.

    I think, having not really studied the matter out in great detail, Blammo's explanation is probably the best.

    Gekko God never tells us that He didn't accept Matthias. He was selected from among two men by casting lots, which was a way for God to do the choosing at that time.

    We have no indication that God was displeased with what went on.
     
  12. Scarlett O.

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    It is very clear in Acts 1:12-26 that Peter led the other disciples in seeking God's face, God's Word, and God's authority to find a replacement for Judas.

    Peter cited scripture that gave evidence of Judas' unworthiness.

    He led them in pray for God to reveal the man who would be the 12th man.

    And they obeyed God's decision. Verse 26 says that Matthias was "numbered" with them.

    ****************************************************

    J.Jump

    If the word twelve is not a collective noun, then what is your supposition as to it's meaning being it is chronologically after Judas and before Matthias?
     
  13. J. Jump

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    Scarlett O. I'm not exactly sure as the to the purpose of the number 12 precisely as I said I haven't studied out the matter in great detail, but with that being said the number 12 has to do with governmental perfection and it seems as though 12 was used to show that God's system was not damaged by the loss of Judas as there were still 12 apostles although one was a newly appointed one.

    It shows that those 12, as you say a complete group, still had a mission and that was spreading the word of the kingdom just as they were instructed to do, and that could be done with the 12 just as God had wanted there to be.

    I know that doesn't give much detail, but that seems to be the case as the message of the kingdom is the context throughout much of Acts, especially through the first 10-11 chapters I believe.

    Then you start to get into the kingdom message being delievered to the Gentiles, which has an extra step in it and you start to see the transition from a Jew only to Jew first to whoever will listen and accept the message.
     
  14. LeBuick

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    All's I say is there will be 12 foundations to the new city. One for each of the disciples. Either Paul or Mathias won't be in the number. Now if I had to choose, I think Mathias is out.

    I still say this was a case of man feeling God was moving too slow or that he was late so we do his work for him. This happens a lot. We pray then move and God is supposed to ordain what we do...
     
  15. Link

    Link
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    This would seem to be an admission of Paul that Matthias was the 12th apostle, not that anyone in his day would have thought he was the 12th.
     
  16. David Michael Harris

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    Nice one...

    Look closely and there maybe 13 :)

    God is Spirit.

    There were many Apostles, Apollos for eg. James the brother of the Lord later basically ran the Church in Jerusalem, chill out, we are on a winner.

    It's all about beginnings, the reception of the Spirit and how we respond... God assigns faith as He wishes.

    It's all about fruit.
     
    #16 David Michael Harris, Oct 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2006

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