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seperate Practicle degrees from research degrees

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Plain Old Bill, Jul 18, 2007.

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  1. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Well I've been posting and reading on the"Baptist College&Seminaries " Forum for about three years now. You guys have really taught me a lot. You have no idea how many books I've bought and read, how many subjects I've researche because you have made a statement or asked a question. I am eternally grateful to all of you for that.

    Reading through these thousands of posts a light went on and an idea came to mind. I'm not to sure how good of an idea it is or if it is practical or do-able. Please let me present it for you guys to kick around and I can see what you think.

    It is my belief some of these less than wonderful schools are not on a level with any of the schools which have actual research degrees(PhD,ThD)which produce our new generation of seminary professors and theologins. They simply don't teach the skills to enable a student to become a seminary professor. However many of these less than wonderful schools do a good job of training men to become good pastors. They tend to teach Bible and how to use the aids,then they teach hands on pastoring,evangelistic,and church planting skills at a pretty proficient level.My question is, is'nt there some way to divide this territory up a little. I guess I would start out something like ACVME Bible College and Graduate School and leave the seminary name out altogether. Of course that would mean only seminaries would teach the research skills to those who would have most need of them.

    I left this a lot open to get feedback. The above idea is only a rough sketch of an idea so feel free to critisize.:godisgood:
     
    #1 Plain Old Bill, Jul 18, 2007
  2. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    "Graduate School" implies more academic research than seminary does. PhDs in every secular subject are earned in "graduate school."

    IMO, the proper terminology for a basic, practical training program would be a "Bible Institute."
     
    #2 StefanM, Jul 18, 2007
  3. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Plain Old Bill,
    A friend of mine once explained to me that there are two kinds of schools. One is a research school that is doing work to break new ground in a field. The other is a school that teaches accepted knowledge in a unified way. Both types of school have their place. For instance, in the field of medicine there are schools that break new ground in drugs, treatments, and tecniques. There are others that teach people to do known procedures like take out an appendix, etc. In theology, we need schools that can teach the accepted truth that we hold to pastors who are going to communicate it to the common man. We also need schools that think about the intellectual, philisophical, and religious challenges of the day and research the scriptures to seek out biblical answers. Both contribute to the Christian life and to ministry.
     
    #3 swaimj, Jul 18, 2007
  4. mjohnson7

    mjohnson7 Member

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    Good point swaimj



    I think this is a good point. I would like to point out, however, that I don't believe schools like Andersonville even do a decent job of teaching "the accepted truth that we hold to pastors who are going to communicate it to the common man."

    I've personally known three Andersonville grads......none could define orthodoxy or heresy. Granted, Andersonville boasts of being IFB, but each of these grads also believed calvinism and preterism were heretical beliefs.

    A school should be able to teach theology from their view, (i.e. you won't find many covenant theologians coming from Dallas Seminary) but just because you don't hold a particular view, doesn't make it heretical.

    Places like Andersonville, which IMO isn't even on the Bible Institute level, hurt REAL, REPUTABLE seminaries like Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, Central in Minneapolis, Calvary in PA. These seminaries, though unaccredited aren't mere mills that dishonor the name of our Lord.

    If I had a pile of resumes and knew nothing about the candidates but their education, all those who listed earned degrees from places like Andersonville would immediately find their proper place in a file I've labeled, "13."
     
    #4 mjohnson7, Jul 18, 2007
  5. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Right. The problem is that many so-called Bible colleges are really pastoral training institutes. That's why many of them can't get accredited. There's a difference between "training" and "education". Degree programs are supposed to be geared toward education not training. And likewise, training institutes should not be allowed to grant degrees.
     
    #5 J.D., Jul 18, 2007
  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Some of the schools probably do not even rate the term "Bible college", that are passing out some of these 'grad' degrees, but that is only my opinion. Likewise some Bible Colleges do not rate their name, either. It is an insult to places such as PCB, Moody, and Multinomah, to name three, for some schools to use the term 'Bible College' or' Bible Institute'. Likewise, it is an insult to Union, Samford, and Bob Jones Universities, to name three more, for some schools to use the name 'University'. It is an insult to other 'good' institutions, when some use Seminary, or Graduate School, in the same way.

    All that said, any institution has the right to set its own standards as it sees fit. Therefore, caveat emptor! You'll get no more than you pay for, and often, far less.

    Ed
     
    #6 EdSutton, Jul 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2007
  7. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Just to clarify, Calvary in Lansdale, PA is in candidate status for regional accreditation. Check out their website at www.cbs.edu to confirm this. I do not know the status of the other two schools. I do concur that the other two schools are not merely degree mills.
     
    #7 swaimj, Jul 18, 2007
  8. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    "After reading the thread title, I wonder this. Would not English be a good practical degree?" Or can we separate the two categories? :rolleyes:

    Signed, Language Cop
     
    #8 EdSutton, Jul 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2007
  9. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    ----------

    Or : "Multinomah" ?:laugh:
     
    #9 UZThD, Jul 18, 2007
  10. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    OOPS! My Bad. I did not look it up but tried to draw from 35 year old memory, even after having some mini-strokes two and three years ago. I have seen bits and pieces about Multnomah, over the years, but did not remember the exact spelling.

    Ed
     
    #10 EdSutton, Jul 18, 2007
  11. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    ==
    BTW, the NW Christian News says that Western Seminary and Multnomah are considering becoming one.
     
    #11 UZThD, Jul 19, 2007
  12. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    J.D. I think I like your pastor training academy or institute idea.Getting a lot of good comments.

    I don't think to many on the board give Andersonville to much credance.:type:
     
    #12 Plain Old Bill, Jul 19, 2007
  13. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    POB Response

    POB,

    You and I are friends and you know that. But, brother, you need to download the spell check and start using it.:laugh:

    You are making a case, whether you know it or not, for more and not less "seminary" education rather than "practical" education.

    Just one teacher's observation. Now, I just know that I can never make another spelling error on the BB!:thumbs: :laugh:

    Even us teachers can take ourselves too seriously sometimes, can we not?

    Yours for the Kingdom's increase.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #13 Rhetorician, Jul 19, 2007
  14. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Rhet,
    You are right . I seldom edit my entries.
    BTW I've read some articles by CES grads which were very impressive. When I finish my free courses I think that is where I'll go. That means you will need to sharpen up your greek. You know I'll ask for you as my mentor.:godisgood:
     
    #14 Plain Old Bill, Jul 19, 2007
  15. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    POB Response

    POB,

    I will be glad to be your mentor in just about any area but Greek. Mine is really rusty, and I would not want to relearn it as I help you. You deserve better. I still read and translate but to teach it is a completely different thing.

    You deserve the best b/c of your commitment to study. I am sure Josh can hook you up with someone better. I will be glad to mentor you through in: Church History, Christian Thought, Homiletics, Rhetoric, Public Speaking, OT Survey, NT Survey, or just about anything else that fits my bio blurb.

    Let me know.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #15 Rhetorician, Jul 20, 2007
  16. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Much appreciated Rhet.:godisgood: Right now I am using Mounce to teach myself Greek. As it turns out Mounce is pastoring a church about 4 miles from my house as we speak. Mounce also heads up BTI from which I am taking courses. Learning languages including english :laugh: is important to me.
     
    #16 Plain Old Bill, Jul 20, 2007
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