Should Methamphetamine be Legalized?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    A very, very interesting article. Before commenting on this article, please read it in its entirety -

    Article LINK
     
  2. fromtheright

    fromtheright
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/2844.JPG>

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,772
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not a comment on the article, which I've not read, but an answer to the question: keep them illegal, but execute those who produce and sell that garbage.

    So, if you make it legal, kids can afford it. Is that what we want--cheaper, more readily available drugs? Does someone think that if you make it illegal and cheaper that the demand will dry up?
     
  3. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Please read the article, ftr. This country is currently overrun with kneejerk reactions on important issues.
     
  4. fromtheright

    fromtheright
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/2844.JPG>

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,772
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think it's a knee jerk reaction. Just because I haven't read the article you posted doesn't mean that I haven't thought about or that there isn't some merit to strongly going after those who make and sell such drugs. I have a more generous attitude toward marijuana but I don't believe that society should tolerate the existence on earth of people who produce and sell garbage (I'm having to bite my Navy tongue and hold back some more aptly descriptive terms) that is so addictive and destroys lives.

    I believe, though, that if we're going to have a war on drugs we should take such a war seriously, by hanging people in the public square who make and sell drugs that are sold to children. Will it happen? Probably not, but that just speaks to the moral slide of the country, not the propriety or efficacy of the suggestion.

    I answered your question. If you don't want to discuss my suggestion any further that's your prerogative. Mine was to post a reply to the question posed in your thread.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am with FTR. I didn't read the article either.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Liberals want the government to be your Mommy. Conservatives want government to be your Daddy." - Andre Marrou
     
  7. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    From the article:

    "The freedom argument is much bigger than the question of whether meth should be legal. It certainly resolves the question, but it raises larger questions about the very nature of government. Any legitimate role of government is confined to protecting rights. Indeed, unless you disagree with the principles upon which this country was founded and believe government is the source of rights which may be distributed to us or taken away, you must agree that government can have no rights other than the ones we individually delegate to it. Because you have no right to be my daddy, you have no such right to delegate to government. Further, because no person individually has any such right, even the majority of people added together collectively have no such right. Therefore, when the government acts as my daddy, it acts wrongfully; even if it acts pursuant to an accurately counted democratic vote.[9] Although it is perfectly fine for me to act as a daddy to my kids, the government has no right to act as a daddy for us."
     
  8. fromtheright

    fromtheright
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/2844.JPG>

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,772
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just want dead drug dealers. I don't give a whit whether "Mommy" or "Daddy" hangs them.
     
  9. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    From the article:

    "In case you are unaware, the government decided in 1919 to amend the United States Constitution to grant power to Congress to prohibit the manufacture, sale and distribution of alcohol. Their drug war played out just like ours; a complete and total disaster. However, it was the best thing that ever happened to organized crime. The manufacture, sale and distribution of alcohol were conducted entirely in illegal and violent markets. Criminals prospered and criminal organizations grew. A major crime wave began in the 1920s and continually increased until the end of prohibition in 1933 when it immediately started to reverse. Prohibition did nothing to curb the desire of people to use alcohol. Indeed, both the per capita consumption of alcohol as well as the rate of alcoholism increased during prohibition. Illegal clandestine stills manufactured alcohol of inconsistent and unpredictable quality. Law enforcement was overwhelmed chasing after people involved in alcohol-related crimes. Does any of this seem familiar to you?"
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Libertarians want anarchy." - Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    From the article:

    "We know certain things for sure. If meth was no longer illegal:

    1. All dangerous clandestine meth labs in residential neighborhoods would close;

    2. All dangerous street gangs would be out of the meth business;

    3. Every dime currently spent on meth prohibition could be spent on real crime;

    4. Meth addicts would have no legal disincentive to seek help;

    5. The manufacture of meth would be safe and produce a consistent product; and

    6. Toxic waste from meth production would be safely disposed."
     
  12. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    From the article:

    "If you support maintaining the war on drugs, you must necessarily conclude that either I am wrong about the above six assertions or that the benefits of the drug war outweigh the obvious benefits contained in the six assertions. It is difficult for me to imagine one could rationally and honestly dispute any of the six assertions. They are obvious and virtually guaranteed to flow from legalization. Therefore, a drug war supporter is left with the argument that the drug war’s benefits outweigh the benefits contained in the six assertions. If this is your position, I challenge you to honestly reweigh the costs and benefits of each scenario. Unless you put your finger on the scale because you personally benefit from the drug war, you must conclude legalization wins."
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems to me that many Pro-abortion groups make the same kinds of arguments for keeping abortion legal.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    From the article:

    "Fortunately, people are slowly waking up to the fact that this war on drugs is the entirely wrong approach. I am encouraged by a courageous group of law enforcement and former law enforcement members who have joined together to form a group entitled Law Enforcement Against Prohibition or LEAP. A visit to their website at http://leap.cc/ is well worth the time invested. The over 2,000 law enforcement members of LEAP state the following, “The membership of LEAP believe to save lives and lower the rates of disease, crime and addiction, as well as to conserve tax dollars, we must end drug prohibition.” The members of LEAP are willing and eager to debate their views with anyone willing to try to defend the drug war. Also, judges are finally starting to speak out. See www.judgesagainstthedrugwar.org which contains judicial opinions critical of the drug war."
     
  15. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    I can shoot holes in the "certain things for sure if meth was legal" argument.

    All points - just substitute some other illegal substance. Or create one. People who want to break the law to make a fast buck will always figure out a way.
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    They also make the same kinds of arguments against enforcing laws against illegal immigration. You can't stop it...so legalize it. It is the rebellious, anti-law and order libertarian mindset.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. fromtheright

    fromtheright
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/2844.JPG>

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,772
    Likes Received:
    0
    Any legitimate role of government is confined to protecting rights.

    That is a completely false and frankly ridiculous "argument". Does government not have a duty to protect lives? Does it not have a duty to preserve order? It is a 20th century (actually going back further) fallacy to suggest that government's duty is only to protect rights. And whose? Does the drug dealer have a right to sell such trash to my children or yours?

    Indeed, unless you disagree with the principles upon which this country was founded and believe government is the source of rights which may be distributed to us or taken away, you must agree that government can have no rights other than the ones we individually delegate to it.

    Again, a ridiculous point that anyone with a shred of knowledge about our Constitution knows is false. "No rights other than the ones we individually delegate to it"? I haven't individually delegated ANY rights to government, but my existence here in society means that as a part of society I have delegated some powers to government. Believing in executing drug dealers doesn't mean that I view government as the source of rights (it is not), but it does mean that it has certain responsibilities. Under the 10th Amendment, the police powers belong to the states and the Supreme Court has so held for over two centuries. I don't want government to act as my Daddy, I want it to punish evil-doing and to eliminate vermin. I'm sorry but someone else can debate whether selling such filth to children is wrong--I just don't have the patience.
     
  18. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where is the constitutional amendment in the federal constitution that makes the "war on drugs" a legal activity for the federal government?

    It is also clear that the federal government cannot win the "war on drugs" or even make a dent in drug use through the "war on drugs".

    It is a total waste of taxpayers' money. It violates the federal constitution. It is anti-the principles of individual liberty on which our nation was founded.
     
  19. fromtheright

    fromtheright
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/2844.JPG>

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,772
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ken,

    Any of us can do "from the article" all day long. You got any of your own thoughts on the subject (posted before your last post, to which I will respond)?
     
  20. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    No one said to do so is right. We don't have laws on the books, nor should we, that criminalize every action that is wrong.

    Just wondering, ftr, if you are consistent and advocate that sexual relations between teenagers should be outlawed and that any transgressors should be executed or at least locked up in prison?
     

Share This Page

Loading...