Sinless in heaven?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by menageriekeeper, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dale's question got me to thinking. Yes, always a bad thing I know, but it's too late. And this is NOT a C/A discussion.

    Does scripture really indicate that we become sinless upon leaving our earthly bodies?

    Does forgiven=sinless (here or in heaven. I know we've had the here conversation, but this puts a new light on it)

    I know there is scripture that speaks to losing this sinful body, but what about our minds; are they not equally as sinful as our bodies?

    Somehow, I don't think I've ever considered this before, more than a general idea that when God looks at us He sees Christ. I suppose I've always continued that idea on to the time we will spend in heaven.

    Shouldn't this be basic stuff? :eek:
     
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Phl 3:21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    1 Corth 15:

    42: So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    43: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    46: Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
    48: As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
    49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    Rom 8:21Because the creature itself alsoshall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    Also, means something has already been delivered from corruption, like the soul!

    If we are going to be like Him, that is certainly without sin!




    BBob,
     
    #2 Brother Bob, Mar 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2008
  3. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,888
    Likes Received:
    112
    I don’t think there will be anything to tempt us in Heaven. Though, I can only imagine it, that somehow, or in some fashion, I envision that we will be so subdued in God’s love and righteousness, being in the sprit of Christ, perfectly apart from sin, that there will be no place for evil to even begin the tempting. I imagine that we will be free to use our minds, but these minds will only exist in the spirit of Christ and nothing will come out of that kind of love but more love. Err, IOW’s I don’t know but feel I can bank on it that it will be only good.

    I think it is natural to fear being a slave in your own mind. This makes me think of creation, (being made in His likeness and image) yet there is only one God, and He is the only Good, so why did He create us in that fashion? I have to say to share His love, within His own family, and bring glory into what ultimately will be a perfect world in Him, This is the reason I like the following verses a lot:

    (Rom 8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    (Rom 8:16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    (Rom 8:17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
    (Rom 8:18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
    (Rom 8:19) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
    (Rom 8:20) For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
    (Rom 8:21) Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

     
  4. Palatka51

    Palatka51
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,724
    Likes Received:
    0
    Regardless of what we may think of ourselves, He will present us blameless before God.

    1 Corinthians 1:8
    8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Thessalonians 5:23
    23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    :godisgood:
     
  5. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    With the absence of the sin nature, the Holy Spirit indwelling us will fill our minds and thoughts. Those moments where we are walking and filled with the Spirit will be continuous.
     
  6. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does that mean you believe that we are not continuously filled with the Holy Spirit now or do you believe that we can "resist" the Holy Spirit now and heaven there will be no barrier? (I'm sure that's as clear as mud)

    That's is just the question, Palatka. Christ will present us as blameless, but will we become blameless as a result of : leaving this body, salvation, etc. When does sin actually leave our experience?
     
  7. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    We can and do resist the Spirit (as evidenced by the Scripture telling us not to). This is what sin is, the resisting of God's Law.

    Also, if we couldn't...the sin nature would be of no affect and we wouldn't sin.
     
    #7 webdog, Mar 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2008
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    1Jo 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

    Darkness represents sin, or the absence of God. When we go to God's presence there will be no darkness, or sin.
     
  9. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rom 8:21Because the creature itself alsoshall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    Also, means something has already been delivered from corruption, like the soul!

    We are "indwelt" with the Holy Spirit now, while the flesh is waiting on its change, which will come in the resurrection. Then both soul and body will be delivered from corruption.

    BBob,
     
  10. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Bob, both this post and the one previous (quoting 1Cor.15) deal with the body. The corruptible body putting on incorruption has nothing to do with sin. Romans 6 teaches us that we must yield the members of our body as instruments of righteous unto righteousness. Just because the body itself is changed does not mean it is not prone to sin. You must come up with a better argument with that.
    I am not saying I disagree with your conclusion. I disagree with how you get there.
     
  11. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,456
    Likes Received:
    93
     
  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  13. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,456
    Likes Received:
    93
    If the "sons of God" came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came with them... where did this take place?
     
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Eden, or could of been the church under the Law, when it was in the flesh.

    Rev 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    When did salvation come? Ever when it was the time that the accuser was cast down.

    BBob,
     
    #14 Brother Bob, Mar 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2008
  15. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Revelation 12:7-9 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    10 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    12 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Are you sure about that Bob?
     
  16. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,456
    Likes Received:
    93
    Both of which were on earth; but Satan had come from patrolling the earth.
     
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, keep reading and it tells you when it happened and how they overcome satan and he was cast down.

    I would hope that you believe that "salvation and strength" has already come?


    Rev 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    When did salvation come? Ever when, it was the time that the accuser was cast down.

    BBob,
     
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rom 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

    Rom 7:19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

    Rom 7:20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    In the resurrection you will have a spiritual body, without sin.

    BBob,
     
  19. Salamander

    Salamander
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
    You included the body, the mind, but you left out the soul.

    It is the soul that becomes sinless at salvation, the spirit reborn.
     
  20. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Sin doesn't reside in a body any more than it resides in a rock. A body is flesh and bones. It is made up of chemicals that you can find on a periodic table. That is not where sin is.
    The "person" is made up of: spirit, soul, and body. The sin is not in the body. The body is basically inanimate. James says that when the spirit leaves the body it is dead. Life comes from the spirit, not the body.
     

Share This Page

Loading...