SLEEP in the Dust of the Earth

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by wopik, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. wopik

    wopik
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    The Bible says the Dead are ASLEEP in the dust of the earth (Daniel 12:2 / 1Thess 4:13-15).


    The reason many Christians can not accept this FACT of Scripture is because they have been lied to about going to Heaven immediately at death, which is a false doctrine.

    What does your denomination teach ?
     
  2. tragic_pizza

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    To live is Christ, and to die is gain.

    What possible difference does it make whether there is an instantaneous temporal presence in eternity, or if that presence in eternity isn't temporally immediate? Sleeping or not makes no difference at all in the eventual outcome, which is eternal life or eternal darkness.

    Can we please, please stop this incessant straining at gnats?
     
  3. Phillip

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    This is true, tragic_pizza because if we are unconscious during death, the time will not pass slowly. It will seem like an instant between the time we die and are ressurected.

    I still have to go back to the statement Jesus made on the cross--today you will be with me in paradise.


    How about Moses who was seen with Jesus by Peter and other disciples? Obviously, they were not unconscious in a grave.
     
  4. tragic_pizza

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    Also a good point.

    Clearly, making our temporal experience fit with the eternal doesn't work.

    God probably has the whole thing figured out, though.
     
  5. Nevertheless

    Nevertheless
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    If that's not the understatement of the century, I don't know what is!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. just-want-peace

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    Touche'!, Slam Dunk!

    I can just imagine God watching us puny humans trying to figure Him out!!?? Infinitely more comical than us watching a squirrel figure out a way around the latest "squirrel-proof" bird feeder. [​IMG]
     
  7. wopik

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    that was merely a vision (Matt 17:9).

    Peter also saw a vision (Acts 10:17).

    St. John was in vision when he wrote Revelation.
     
  8. wopik

    wopik
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    just-want-peace

    Hi, everyone!

    Perhaps we are supposed to try and figure some of this stuff out ----

    2Timothy
    2:15
    Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
     
  9. menageriekeeper

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    What? You mean Christ only thought he was talking to Moses? You mean Peter and the other disciples were dreaming and didn't really see Jesus talking to Moses? Maybe some sort of time continuom/startrek type thing was going on?
     
  10. Bartimaeus

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    Hello Wopik,
    Just me again. Just wondering when you will stop the ruse. Why call yourself Baptist and continue to throw a yoke on the necks of new Christians. I believe James spoke about this issue in Acts 15. BTW were you there? Did you take part in the debate. Oh! I am so sorry....I am not swinging a staff like a tender of sheep. But I really would like to know what the name of the fellowship is that you attend and where it is located? (Haven't I ask this before, many many times with no answer?) Please help us out.
    Thanks So Very Much ------Bart
     
  11. aa0310

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    The teaching that the soul "sleeps" after death is completely against Scripture, and has its origin in hell!

    None other than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, the Greatest Authority on Scripture, told the pentant thief on the cross, that, "today (that is, THIS DAY), you will be with me in paradise"!!! NOT, as the SDA and other supporters of this soul-sleep heresy, will have it read, "today, you shall be with Me...", where the move the coma to accomodate their heretical doctrines! The Bible uses "sleep" to denote "death", see John chapter 11, and you will understand. Paul said that it was far better for him to depart and be with the Lord, where the Greek word for "better", is "an advantage". (Colossians 1:23), which would mean nothing if it was to be in a few years time!
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Actually - Luke 23 was written in Greek - not English.

    This comes as a big surprise to some people on this board - and "yet" it is true.

    42 And he was saying, ""Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!''
    43 And He said to him, ""Truly I say to you today you shall be with Me in Paradise.''

    NOTICE the "WHEN" statement "WHEN you come into your Kingdom" (A clear reference to Daniel 7 and the Son of Man receiving a Kingdom).

    And Christ responds saying that the thief WOULD (future tense) be WITH Christ in Paradise.

    And "as it turns out" these are ALL THE REFERENCES to it in scripture. So "making stuff up" about it BEYOND what you find in these texts is at best "wishful thinking".

    So that leaves us with the question - DID Christ go to the throne of God on that Friday?

    John 20:17 AFTER the resurrection "I HAVE NOT YET ascended to My Father".

    Now lets get to the more direct question asked by AA0310 -- IS it really TRUE that the 1Thess 4:13-15 reference to the saints "who are alseep" is a statement the ckmes to us "from hell" as AA0310??

    Is it true that the reference to the saints sleeping in 1Cor 11 comes from hell?

    And is it true the reference to this fact - made by Christ in John 11, "comes hell" as AA0310 claims?

    I mean - COULD that even BE TRUE?

    I don't think so.

    What about 1Cor 15?

    Now let’s Rewrite this to see how it would be written to show that only the bodies are “asleep” while the Person becomes “Alive in Christ” at death by contrast. (As a help to AA0310)

    WOW! What a rewrite!

    The “really fascinating” part of this is that 1Cor 15 DOES have a segment that IS just focused on the BODY of the saints.

    So Finally we have a text that does NOT need to be rewritten so that it applies Only to the body – the decaying corpse of the Person. Here it is…

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Notice that in 1Thess 4 it is the PERSON that is asleep. But when the BODY of the person is the subject (as in the case above - 1Cor 15) then "IT" is decaying and "IT" is dust and "IT" is one thing vs another entirely different thing when raised.

    In 1Cor15 we see the perfect deliniation between the "WE" the PERSON that is raised and the IT - the body that is given to the PERSON.

    Don't miss that.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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